KQs on K-high flop

Clownfish · #1 12-29-2006, 05:15 AM

Villain is 23/4/2 over about 75 hands at this point. I've seen him limp with AJs from UTG and didn't raise AQo from BB earlier. Haven't seen him get out of line anywhere.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero...

Not sure if my thought process was correct here. I raise him on the flop and he 3 bets, telling me that my KQ is no good. I call getting 15 to 1. Then turn comes a blank and he bets again.

Call down or fold? Also, do you skip the raise and call down from flop?

BigBadBabar · #2 12-29-2006, 05:24 AM

i like your play and i call down turn and river. no way i'm folding. if you are super worried on flop, or if he's *that* tight, or if you think he'll fire a couple barrels with a worse hand (altho this is unlikely given your read) then you can call, call, call.

Niediam · #3 12-29-2006, 05:32 AM

If villian has AA you have odds to continue... if he has AK you don't.

If you had a lot of hands on villian and knew he pfr was only 4 I think it's a pretty easy fold. As is in still leading towards folding.

Befolder · #4 12-29-2006, 01:13 PM

Grunch.

Villain has one of the following hands (most times)according to your read: AK, KQ, KJ, 66, 88, AXh.

I call down after the flop 3 bet and expect to lose.

Edit: I missed that villain 3 bet pf. AA, KK and QQ are now in the mix.

threads13 · #5 12-29-2006, 01:22 PM

You probably would be safe to assume that this guy has a good hand and isn't just defending. I would give him a range of about JJ+/AK. I think it is good to just call down as he will just 3-bet us with his AK, KK, and AA. The only hands that I think you will get value from are JJ and QQ.

Clownfish · #6 12-29-2006, 01:23 PM

Little confused, befolder, on your edit. Are you saying his 3 betting from sb hands are AA, KK? He did 3 bet from SB.

Befolder · #7 12-29-2006, 01:25 PM

Sorry CF. I just reedited my edit. I missed that villain 3 bet. AA, KK and QQ could certainly be had by villain. It doesn't change my feeling about being beaten or still calling down after the flop though.

22pajo · #8 12-29-2006, 01:26 PM

top pair with a strong kicker is certainly a call on the turn for me and probably the river also if its another blank.

You could raise and fold to a 3 bet on the turn or call a turn bet and a bet on the river for the same cost but get to see what he shows down.
Call Down.

Clownfish · #9 12-29-2006, 01:34 PM

In thinking more about this hand, I think it screams call down. My raise on the flop is only going to get rid of a hand like QQ or JJ which are the only hands that I want to put bets in against. By raising flop, I have given him a chance to escape with those hands while charging myself extra when he has me beat.

Christian_Peters · #10 12-29-2006, 01:45 PM

If this were HU, you obviously just call down from the donk flop, without ever raising. You're in a tough spot on this flop though - because if you don't raise, you give LP 12-1. I would raise to protect my hand. I strongly consider folding the turn, but it is read dependent. I probably call down and expect to lose to AA,KK, or AK a significant majority of the time.

Here's something to think about for the future though:
If this were HU and you did raise the flop, what should you do on a blank turn if he just calls your flop raise?
Against most villains, the answer is you should check. Because you have a pair of kings, you don't fear a free card that much. This move also prevents the turn c/r which is extremely common in this sort of situation, ie when he just calls your flop raise. Few villains are good enough to fold QQ or JJ in this spot, but some are. And if you do this move, you get these hands to donk you again on the river, which you can snap off. Just FWIW. But again, HU it is probably best to just call down from the start.