Stud8 15/30 live with maniacs...

[TMTTR]

This is a full table, 15/30, the play is wild... Hero is to the right of bring in.

Player 1: XX XX 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - Bring In
Player 2: Folds
Player 3: XX XX K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls
Player 4: Folds
Player 5: XX XX 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls
Player 6: Folds
Player 7: XX XX 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] completes
Hero: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls.
Player 1 folds, all others call.

4th Street:
Player 3: XX XX K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - Bets
Player 5: XX XX 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - Folds
Plater 7: XX XX 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - Raises
Hero: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - ???

Now, in any normal game, I would seriously consider folding this brick -- but I know that Player 3 would lead out with anything (and is the worst player at the table -- occassionally plays totally blind claiming that he can't do any worse than he does when he looks) and Player 7 either has (1) a worse low draw than me or (2) a big pocket pair. He loves to bet and raise to force out the competition regardless of whether he has any equity of his own. If I am fairly confident that either (a) I have the only low draw or (b) I have the best low draw (both despite the brick, would anybody call or raise?

Note, this is a two way game (O8/Stud8) and I think that most of the players (including myself) are far more familiar with O8 than Stud8.

[mscags]

Nah, this is still a pretty easy fold. You need to catch well on fifth street just to catch up. Give yourself a three flush and maybe, but still prob not.

[PokerJans]

I would fold for two bets. Not much potential here...

Probably even fold for one bet. Putting yourself in an advantagous position on the early streets playing stud8 is key.

[Bay]

where is this game nyc?

[Andy B]

Easy fold. Your hand is crap and it's two bets to you in a small pot. Get while the getting's good.

[howzit]

PM please. but i fold.

[getfunky]

yes, everyone I get it, the standard play in average pot size like this is to fold a brick for a raise even with the wheel draw, but this situation needs to be thought out.

if you believe pretty strongly it will only cost the two bets, and the players are so bad as to get jammed the hell out of if you get lucky, I think calling is OK just because of the live cards (if in fact the ones you failed to mention were not the key cards of 6 or lower) with only one trey out, you're looking to find 3 3's, 4 aces, 4 sixes and to a lesser extent 3 sevens, for a total of 14 cards to put you in reasonable shape to win a nice big split or scooped pot - with implied odds and idiots, i make an exception here and gamble - yes I know I'll get slammed here but I'm gambling with two small bets and easily getting away from the hand on 5th or standing a good chance to win big. Before you all kill me, I do think if there's even a 50-50 chance you get reraised, or the cards you need are 12 instead of 14, I'm outta there.

[Andy B]

I wouldn't be terribly excited about calling one bet on fourth. With two bets, it's going to cost too much to see if you can make anything. You'll have to call at least one bet on fifth, and maybe by sixth you'll have something worthwhile. Maybe you won't make anything until the river, which cuts down on your presumed implied odds even more. Really, I think you're looking more at reverse-implied odds than implied odds with this dog. Fourth is a fold.

[TMTTR]

OK -- I have nothing here. But I truly believe that my nothing has more potential than the nothings of the other guys -- a call is wrong, but I did call and player 1 called too... which brings us to fifth street (and it may be a little off, but not in the important parts) and a pot of approx. 6BB:

Player 3: XX XX K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Plater 7: XX XX 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Of course, this is a near perfect card, but any of the 3s, 6s, and 7s were ok... so...

I bet, and get two calls from the maniacs... At this point I know I have the best low draw if not the only low draw and I might even have the best high hand....