JJ 3bet and in position

[Claunchy]

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Honestly (on the flop anyway) I don't think a smaller PP is a big part of his range. Assuming villain is a multi-tabler who's semi-decent, he has probably AQ/AK, TT+ here most always. Not many players are raising UTG and calling a button 3-bet with a SC or 77 or some crap.

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Villain is easily deep enough to raise/call with 77 here. Easily.

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UTG: $237.55

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If he's calling a 3-bet OOP w/ 77 ~115BBs deep he SUCKS.

[Casper05]

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flop is whatever. I check behind on the river pretty much always.

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I think a lot of people do. But explain why.

[/ QUOTE ]I think we already maxed out our value with the 3-bet and turn call. Villian took a stab at the pot on the turn and basically gave up. I dont see him calling with anything we beat. Maybe he missed his draw...maybe he whiffed on his UP...either way he's not calling with anything we beat, imo.

I play it the same on ever other street.

[Bukem_]

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If he's calling a 3-bet OOP w/ 77 ~115BBs deep he IS A STANDARD TAGFISH

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[mscags]

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free cards for which we gain no value.

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We gain value when he bluffs. Or when he calls us down with a hand like 77. Or when he calls our river bet with AK.

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So you are turning a weak overpair into a bluff-catcher on the flop??

Can we at least agree on villain's range? What % of the time is under PPs? What % is drawing hands (6+ outers)?

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That's what I'm interested in. How many times does villain really call this reraise pf w 55-88? I don't think those are called nearly as often as AK,AQ etc. IMO, if villain is calling a lot with small PPs, then you have to throw in some [censored] like 9Ts, JTs, 89s, 78s, etc.

[The Grumbler]

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Honestly (on the flop anyway) I don't think a smaller PP is a big part of his range. Assuming villain is a multi-tabler who's semi-decent, he has probably AQ/AK, TT+ here most always. Not many players are raising UTG and calling a button 3-bet with a SC or 77 or some crap.

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Villain is easily deep enough to raise/call with 77 here. Easily.

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UTG: $237.55

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If he's calling a 3-bet OOP w/ 77 ~115BBs deep he SUCKS.

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He's IN POSITION, and I see this a LOT (calling 3-bets w/77+) from otherwise decent players @ 1/2.

[epdaws]

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If he's calling a 3-bet OOP w/ 77 ~115BBs deep he IS A STANDARD TAGFISH

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That's the point. I see it every session I play.

[Tickner]

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free cards for which we gain no value.

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We gain value when he bluffs. Or when he calls us down with a hand like 77. Or when he calls our river bet with AK.

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He isnt going to bluff all the time. Think about the times he bets the turn. Is his turn bet a bluff or a hand that beats us? You don't know because all the information you have is that he raised UTG preflop, called your 3bet (which could mean a lot of things varying from weak to very strong hands). Checked to the 3better, and then bet the turn. His line can match up with a huge range of holdings here because so far it looks like a strong hand that wanted to check raise the flop but at the same time it looks like he could be bluffing. My point is you'll never know if its a bluff or not because his hand isnt very well defined.

You should be the one constantly applying pressure for several reasons that I've already mentioned and I dont want to repeat.

Meh, take it or leave it, I don't want to sit here and argure this all night.

Also, LOL @ him calling river bet with AK. That never happens and you know it.

[The Grumbler]

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free cards for which we gain no value.

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We gain value when he bluffs. Or when he calls us down with a hand like 77. Or when he calls our river bet with AK.

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So you are turning a weak overpair into a bluff-catcher on the flop??

Can we at least agree on villain's range? What % of the time is under PPs? What % is drawing hands (6+ outers)?

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That's what I'm interested in. How many times does villain really call this reraise pf w 55-88? I don't think those are called nearly as often as AK,AQ etc. IMO, if villain is calling a lot with small PPs, then you have to throw in some [censored] like 9Ts, JTs, 89s, 78s, etc.

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ABSOLUTELY!
It seems like many know how to follow pre-flop hand selection charts, but are totally lost when 3-bet from the blinds. By default, they call.

[Isura]

You guys need to think more long-term. Checking this flop might be slightly better in a vacuum, but we don't play a poker session in a vacuum. I'm betting this flop cause:

1) I often have the best hand and our hand is vulnerable. Protect your hand in big pots and take it down.

2) I want to bet this flop with AA, sets and T9.

3) I want to bet this flop with AJ, A5, KQ, 44, OESD or FDs.

4) It's an obvious fold if we're raised, and we almost never get raised with worse. We're either a coinflip or crushed by his c/r range.

5) As a consequence, I don't want to be playing guessing games when I have similar vulnerable 1 pair hands. When people make you guess, you're more likely to make mistakes.

[epdaws]

Tick,

It's cool, agree to disagree. But your point that we should bet to fold out worse hands and force better hands to raise is contrary to our goals in general.