Picking Spots

[mxp2004]

I played in a MTT down in AC yesterday, and there is one hand that I would like some feedback about. The question is mostly about picking the right spot to make a stand.

The blinds were 300/600 with 75 ante. I was in the BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I started the hand with about 14,000, an average stack at this point. Two MPs and the Button limped. The SB folded, and I decided to check. 4 players saw the flop with 3450 in the pot.

The flop came A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I led out with 1600 to see where I stood. The two MPs were tight players, and they folded as I expected they would if they did not hold an Ace. The Button was a new player to the table, and I had no read on him at all. He reraised me to 3500, and he had another 10,000 behind.

At this point, I figured the only hands I could beat were A7 or lower and hands being raised on a draw (such as flush draw, or a lower pair plus a gutshot). Hands that beat me like A9, AT, and AJ were all within the possible range in my view, as was QJ for a Broadway straight.

The pot was now around 8500, and he was laying me over 4:1 to call. Although those were very good pot odds, I opted to lay down the hand and save my remaining 11,700 in chips to pick a better spot to get into a fight.

Was this a decent laydown or way too weak?

[Jeff76]

I lay this down and feel good about it. I also probably check/call the flop and check/fold the turn. Don't know if that's optimal, but it's how I would play a weak hand on a dangerous board.

[TFGoose]

Against an unknown player, I like the laydown. It's going to cost too many of your chips (now, and probably on later streets) to find out if you have the best hand, and it just isn't worth it. That board is terrible for your TPWK hand. Muck it, and keep your eye on the new guy.

--TFGoose

[BriPlay]

id lay it down
.
1. you are out of position
2. folding leaves you plenty of chips
3. only flush draw would have to be Q hi or less, and from button he might be suited for a str8 and fl draw, or pr and fl draw. QT, QJs?. so chances of naked fl draw are lower

cant see a hand you beat or have a draw to beat.

i fold, and watch this guy closely.

Brian

[BriPlay]

i dont see the value of calling here.
we have no draw, and checking turn invites an obvious bet from button even with junk. it also give him chance to improve.
interested in your reasoning, maybe im missing something

brian

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see the value of calling here.

[/ QUOTE ]By "here" you mean this board after a check right? Because I wasn't saying to call as played. Just making sure we're on the same page.

The value of calling would be that we may have the best hand. A button betting into this pot could easily be a positional "everyone obviously wiffed this" and he might give up on the turn.

Check/folding seems to be too weak with top pair, even with such a dangerous board and crummy kicker, and betting out doesn't seem to do much for us either. So that's why I end up with check/call.

I am REALLY not good at playing out of position with marginal hands, so I could be waaaay off base here. I'd like to hear some other approaches for this hand.

[4CardStraight]

I fold, and like the way the hand was played, however I think the flop bet should perhaps be slightly larger.

You are not making a continuation bet, you did not raise preflop and you are betting into a few people. Therefore, the half pot bet is probably too small. Half pot seems to scream, I have a weak ace or a good pair of kings+combo draw, and if button is frisky he may make this play with anything from Air to a solid draw or better ace. I would say this board is highly connected, and I would want my bet to say that I am committed to taking this down and you better have the nuts because I will likely take this to the felt. Betting something like two thirds to pot (like 3k) still leaves you 10k behind in case someone does go over you, and also maximizes the chance of a weaker ace or bad clubs just laying the hand down. Just my thought.

[Village Idiot]

I'm checking this flop on this board.
Making a bet OOP with that many left to act this short stacked is asking for trouble IMO.

I can't see Villain having a lower pair and a gut shot on this board.
He would have had to of limped either JJ or QQ pre flop with a shorter stack.
99 would not give him a gut shot draw.

His reraise says either he does have the flush draw and a J (J10s ?) or he for some reason has no fear of the flush draw giving you the odds to call if you have the flush draw.
He may have A10 with the 10 of clubs ?
He could possibly have 10 9 of clubs for a fluish draw with a gut shot.
If Villain is tricky this bet of his scares the hell out of me. He's saying I have a big hand and I'm trying to suck you in.

Good laydown as played.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm checking this flop on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]So what is your plan for the hand if the button bets when checked to?

[mxp2004]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm checking this flop on this board.
Making a bet OOP with that many left to act this short stacked is asking for trouble IMO.

I can't see Villain having a lower pair and a gut shot on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for all the comments. I want to respond to a few of the posts that suggested checking the flop.

On this board and given the preflop action, I felt that betting out was the best option. If I checked, I would have no idea where I stood in the hand if someone bet behind me. This is a coordinated and scary board, but that is true for everyone still in the pot. Against a bunch of limpers, I am most likely up against an assortment of connected cards, small pairs, and possibly another Ax hand. It is hard for a lot of those hands to call, let alone raise, someone leading out into a field from 1st position. Thus, I figured there was a decent chance that my bet would take the pot if I indeed held the best hand, and I could still get away from the hand if persuaded that I was beaten.

With respect to the lower pair, gutshot possibilities that could be out there, I was thinking that KQ, KJ, QT, and JT could all be in play. This guy wasn't at the table long enough for me to figure out whether he was capable of making a play like this, and in the end, I felt that there were too many possible hands where I could way far behind to get involved any further in this pot. The consensus seems to be that folding was right play. I appreciate all the input.