One of these rare "big laydowns"?

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i had to make a guess i think button has ax of hearts, maybe a7? and mp1 has a lower flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a straightforward tag would play FD+TP this way. I think he is going to have a set here much more often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would a set call the turn but then raise the river after the obvious draw got there? That said, I really don't think you're beating both villains at that point, and even if you call the river the first time the fold is still correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you got me with the turn action. My hand-reading must be off here.

[CFaug]

grunch
you gotta put MP1 on a made flush draw. MP1 called the flop, turn and then lead out betting when the third heart came on the river. Therefore IMO it would have been best to fold on the river after the button raised

[marchron]

To answer the question your title poses, no, this is not "one of these rare 'big laydowns,'" because this is quite an easy laydown unless your opponents are high.

MP1 has a flush. Button has a set of 9's. You're screwed. Fold the first time you're faced with two cold on the river.

[Clinger]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

just ended the session with the following hand.
Villain1 in MP is unknown. Villain2 (the Button) is 17/7/2.67 over about 500 hands, a straightforward TAG.
Now the hand.

Pacific Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6SB, 6 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.5BB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Button calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (14.5BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button caps</font>, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: 20.5BB

After having reviewed it, I think the first river call might be a little inconsistent because I eventually folded to the cap.
So do you call down here?
Do you call the first 2-bets on the river at all?
Do you play the other streets differently?
Last but not least: Do you raise PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you call down here?
No, explanation:

Do you play the other streets differently?
I lead the river--just because the flush card hit doesn't mean someone has a flush. If it comes back to me for two cold, then I consider a fold...but I think we could see a A9, A5 combination often enough that I would call two cold. When I call the two cold, if it comes back for one more, I obviously call the cap.

Last but not least: Do you raise PF?
No. I'm not sure we have enough of an equity edge with 22 to do this (maybe 88 and up?)


OK, reading other responses now...

[Clinger]

After reading responses:

Looks like I need to learn when it's OK to lay down a set, lol.

[unterfish]

[ QUOTE ]
if i had to make a guess i think button has ax of hearts, maybe a7? and mp1 has a lower flush.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thats exactly what button had: A7 of hearts. When he got reraised on the turn, he probably realized that he was no good with his top two pair, but still had plenty of outs to the river.
MP1 mucked his lower flush.
So, I guess I could release my hand when it was the first two bets to call.
Thanks anyone.

[bozlax]

Your river line licks sweaty donkey balls. If you call the first two, you have to call the second two, but you're better off betting it yourself and folding to a raise.

That said, Button's hand sure looks like A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Fold when it's 2 to you the first time. Everything up to the river is gOOt.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
If you call the first two, you have to call the second two

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. While I've never seen a correct example of a coldcall/fold, it's definitely ok to call one/fold for one more in some spots.

[Hielko]

[ QUOTE ]
If you call the first two, you have to call the second two

[/ QUOTE ]
That's stupid: you got way more information about the hands of the villains after the river 3-bet &amp; cap. It's not like you get 10:1 the first time and 12:1 (or something like that, just putting some random numbers here) so if the first call was right the second must be right too.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you call the first two, you have to call the second two

[/ QUOTE ]
That's stupid: you got way more information about the hands of the villains after the river 3-bet &amp; cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, Button raise/called your bet/3-bet on the flop AND turn, and has now raised a donkbettor (who's been quiet until a couple of draws come in) on the river. What "more information" do you need? You're either looking at hands you're behind or you're looking at Villans that are over-playing their hands...the 3-bet/cap doesn't change that much.

And, Xhad, I agree that there are times when it's correct to call one/fold to one more in multiway pots...too bad that's not what we're looking at.