$22/180 man - making a loose preflop call

[Sparta45]

Fairly early on. I've built up a nice stack so far. My read on villain is that he's a pretty weak player. And I'm confident that if I get a lucky flop, I can take his stack. Therefore, my main question is....Is it okay to make a loose preflop call like this one since the stacks are so deep?

Other than that, please let me know what you think of my line on other streets as well.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP3 (t2815)
CO (t3155)
Button (t1945)
SB (t1380)
BB (t2645)
Hero (t4605)
UTG+1 (t4700)
MP1 (t1790)
MP2 (t1340)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, Hero calls t120.

Flop: (t345) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Turn: (t345) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t260</font>, UTG+1 calls t260.

River: (t865) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t510</font>, Hero calls t510.

Final Pot: t1885

[RetiredAt22]

your out of position, and your calling with a hand where you could be sharing cards, AJ, A10, especially since hes raising from EP, youd be a big dog. Plus, the bet was 5xbb, and if hes a weak player even with a 369 flop, and you lead out and bet around 60% of the pot, theres a good chance they will call with their over cards.

so basicly your calling 5xbb for a miracle flop = two pair, double gutter/open-ended. Even if you hit a good draw and have 8 outs to fill it, what do you do when you check the flop and he leads out for 80% of the pot? are you gonna make another bad call to see if you can get his stack?

Would i call this bet if he was At CO? and i had the button... possibly, (if it were suited).

i think this is a bad call and will only lead to more
bad plays down the line.

[w33ktight]

i fold this pf every time.

[Sparta45]

Does anyone else have any advice about this??

I already know I'm out of position....and I already know there is a good chance I'm dominated....or worse. My question is that since this is less than 3% of my stack....is this kind of call alright? I'm looking for a strong flop. 2 pair or better...trips, etc. Villain is weak and I'm pretty sure he'll pay me off.

Also....please comment on the other streets.

[shaundeeb]

I like playing against people like you.

[RetiredAt22]

ok lets take a closer look at this:

UTG raise = 10/10, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo

In order to get his stack your gonna look for a situation where you flop x 10 J, or any made straight. If you hit a flop like JJ8, your still not guaranteed your getting his stack, since sometimes a weak player can make that play with AJ.

So basicly the math is the same on deciding if you can call for set value. I usually call off ___ &lt; 1/10th of my stack to hit a set, granted that he's got me covered.

Here, he does have you covered, and the bet to you is = 2%, (keep in mind you already called, so its 90 more). The odds of flopping two pair are roughly 49/1 or 2%. So this shows that the call was okay. Also, factor in the outside chance of flopping the straights.

So after reevaluating this hand, i say that a call is fair, only if you are only looking for the prime flop. this would mean that a flop of 3, 8, 10 will be just as if it was 345, and you wouldnt put chips in play. this way you wont have to worry about other streets.

clearly you will "probe bet" the flop, to see if he'll play back if you hit two pair. I think that gets more action than the basic check raise right off the bat. the probe bet on the flop, can be followed up by a check/call or check/raise on the turn. all depends on the texture of the board for turn and river.

[Sparta45]

[ QUOTE ]
I like playing against people like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You're so helpful.

[shaundeeb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like playing against people like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You're so helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

It means the play is awful you can pray for miracle flops and turned guyshots but you don't even get enough value from them.

[RetiredAt22]

deeb, even if the odds on the call for just getting two pair are correct? odds of flopping two pair, 2%, the raise to him was 1.9% of what he had left. True its a miracle, but how can you justify not making the call? when is "value" different then just plain math?

im sure thres nuances to the game i dont get yet, and since you play a billion 180s a week im sure this is second nature to you, but an deeper explanation would be great. thanks in advance

[shaundeeb]

reverse implied odds even if he flops 2pair he isn't 10)% to win.