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#51
12-24-2006, 07:32 PM
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Re: seif rips gold
[ QUOTE ]
But if Ali had been in the USA rather than in Holland, she'd have been either shipped to Guantanamo as a terrorist, or deported as an illegal immigrant, not just evicted from her house, so the issue would never have arisen. [/ QUOTE ] She was THREATENED by terrorists; she wasn't one herself. Sent to Guantanamo? Don't insult your readers' intelligence please. If you're going to argue sensibly (as you did in most of your post) please spare the hyperbole; it really does detract from the rest of your points. [ QUOTE ] And her eviction had nothing to do with property values. Rather, people felt that she was likely to attract terrorist activity in the area and so her 'bravery' actually posed a threat to their safety. [/ QUOTE ] No, her bravery didn't "pose a threat". The *terrorists* posed the threat. Would you also argue that a black person riding near the front of the bus (pre-Rosa Parks era) "posed a threat" to the other black passengers because Ku Klux Klansmen had made threats against black people "getting uppity" on buses? The Islamic terrorists (or the Klansmen) posed the threat, not the person standing up for their rights against the Islamist terrorist bigots or against the Klansman terrorist bigots. She (Ali) was merely standing up against terrorism and bigotry and the terrorist bigots threatened her for it. [ QUOTE ] Presumably, you aren't suggesting that Americans don't take their security seriously? Because I travel to both countries regularly, and I know which of the two has the higher level of petty, over-the-top security checking and it isn't The Netherlands. [/ QUOTE ] I would think you are correct on that. 
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#53
12-24-2006, 07:54 PM
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Re: seif rips gold
[ QUOTE ]
I was saying that if two people privately agree a deal with nothing in writing it's going to be exceptionally difficult for the aggrieved party to seek legal redress. [/ QUOTE ] Unless you use stool softener, you must really being hurting with the amount that you talk out of your ass.
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#54
12-24-2006, 08:00 PM
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Re: seif rips gold
[ QUOTE ]
But if Ali had been in the USA rather than in Holland, she'd have been either shipped to Guantanamo as a terrorist, or deported as an illegal immigrant, not just evicted from her house, so the issue would never have arisen. [/ QUOTE ] I think you have your facts on this exactly backward. Ali is now happily living in the USA, in fact. [ QUOTE ] Presumably, you aren't suggesting that Americans don't take their security seriously? Because I travel to both countries regularly, and I know which of the two has the higher level of petty, over-the-top security checking and it isn't The Netherlands. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I don't think America takes its security very seriously, despite its vast overabundance of petty, over-the-top security checking. [ QUOTE ] 1.) the quality of my defense isn't as likely to depend on how wealthy I am. See the latest Grisham, in which the lawyer is paid $3000 to mount a defence in a murder trial, so acting in his client's interest is actually costing him a fortune. 2.) I'm never going to be wrongly executed by a Dutch court. 3.) Politics will play a much smaller role in determining whether the case will be brought in the Netherlands. 4.) If convicted in Holland, I'd be sent to a reasonably decent and humane prison and wouldn't be forcibly buggered by the brothers on a regular basis. [/ QUOTE ] You've raised some absolutely fair points for debate. [ QUOTE ] Don't get me wrong: this isn't standard European anti-Americanism. I envy aspects of your political system and some of the aspects of how your court system works. And I'm British, so we invented the adversarial system. *And* I'm married to a lawyer, so at least half of our household income depends upon it. Obviously, both sides have strengths and weaknesses, but on balance I'd definitely rather be tried in Holland than the UK or the USA. [/ QUOTE ] Being American, I naturally lump all the European justice systems together. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#55
12-25-2006, 01:59 AM
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Re: seif rips gold
[ QUOTE ]
But if Ali had been in the USA rather than in Holland, she'd have been either shipped to Guantanamo as a terrorist, or deported as an illegal immigrant, not just evicted from her house, so the issue would never have arisen. And her eviction had nothing to do with property values. Rather, people felt that she was likely to attract terrorist activity in the area and so her 'bravery' actually posed a threat to their safety. Presumably, you aren't suggesting that Americans don't take their security seriously? Because I travel to both countries regularly, and I know which of the two has the higher level of petty, over-the-top security checking and it isn't The Netherlands. As why I'd prefer to be in front of a Dutch court as opposed to a US court -- well, there are several reasons: 1.) the quality of my defense isn't as likely to depend on how wealthy I am. See the latest Grisham, in which the lawyer is paid $3000 to mount a defence in a murder trial, so acting in his client's interest is actually costing him a fortune. 2.) I'm never going to be wrongly executed by a Dutch court. 3.) Politics will play a much smaller role in determining whether the case will be brought in the Netherlands. 4.) If convicted in Holland, I'd be sent to a reasonably decent and humane prison and wouldn't be forcibly buggered by the brothers on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong: this isn't standard European anti-Americanism. I envy aspects of your political system and some of the aspects of how your court system works. And I'm British, so we invented the adversarial system. *And* I'm married to a lawyer, so at least half of our household income depends upon it. Obviously, both sides have strengths and weaknesses, but on balance I'd definitely rather be tried in Holland than the UK or the USA. [/ QUOTE ] I see a number of problems with your argument: 1. The minute you quoted Grisham, you kinda lost it for me. I recogonize that his latest novel is non-fiction, but you are picking an extreme example to make your argument. It is cases like these why the judiciary is rated 94, not 100. Nothing is perfect. 2. You've shifted this to a criminal trial when what we are actually disussing is a civil trial. Moreover, you then talk about the death penalty and terrorism, all politically charged issues that immediately go to the extreme. Those types of cases represent what ... 1-2% of our criminal justice system? That means you are disregarding 98% of our legal system to form your opinion. Tough to make your argument based on that type of extremes. I don't know anything about the index that was quoted, but assuming it is valid and unbiased, I believe that it shows a better overall view of our legal system than some isolated extremes. NCAces
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#56
12-25-2006, 02:12 AM
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Re: seif rips gold
[ QUOTE ]
US legal system is tailored to drag the litigation forever and allow lawyers buy million-dollar homes. Law of precedence that we borrowed from the Great Britain is complete BS. Why the f**k I have no chance of winning my case just because some court in 1969 decided a SIMILAR issue in favor of the opposing side. Keep living under a delusion that US is the best country in the world with the best legal system. OJ Simpson case and Frist's bill haven't taugh anyone anything. Just wait till you get booked for online poker and spend all your bankroll on lawyer and court fees. Remy over and out. EDIT: Just remembered an article in Dallas Morning News a couple of months ago where a 50-year old woman, high-school history teacher was arrested (in error) for allegedly unpaid parking ticket. They "misplaced" her file and she ended up spending 5 days in county jail without ever seeing a judge. Guards telling her to shut the [censored] up and wait. Cell overcrowded with druggies and drunkards. Feeding on water and nasty sandwiches. Her family going nuts. I say, [censored] this system to high heavens. The only people who like it are cops and lawyers. [/ QUOTE ] This is so ignorant on so many levels that I don't know where to start. I will simply point out that it is our system of "Staris decisis" ... meaning that we follow judicial precedence ... that is the cornerstone of our entire civilization. Without such a concept, you would have every case decided differently and you could never rely on knowing what the law was. The reliance is the key ... because we know that almost all the time judges will interpret the law as it has been interpretted in the past, you can govern your behavior accordingly. Otherwise, you would never know whether something you are going to do would be legal (in a criminal context), because even though all judges have decided cases similar to yours in the same way, you might get the tough judge who would do otherwise. You would get screwed. Of course, the same applies in transactions between people and businesses -- we can function in our society because we can rely on the fact that if a judge has held in the past one way, that another judge can't arbitrarily decide otherwise (obviously they do from time to time, sometimes actually creating new law, but most often being reversed on appeal). You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about something ... ripping cops and lawyers ... but your post paints you an moran. NCAces
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#57
12-25-2006, 02:16 AM
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Re: seif rips gold
JG is a pile of steaming dog [censored].
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#58
12-25-2006, 02:21 AM
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Re: seif rips gold
Can we shift this back to JG? I was hoping some of the high stakes people would chime in how be plays at the cash games in commerce.
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#60
12-25-2006, 08:01 AM
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Re: seif rips gold
[ QUOTE ]
But the political system is not the same thing as the justice system, which in Italy, is perfectly average in terms of it's "fairness". The insanity of the political syatem does not, for the most part, spill over into the mainsatream justice system. [/ QUOTE ] In the overzealousness to perpetuate your anti-American rant you tripped over yourself here. The problem with Italy is that the judicial side of the house is inbred with the political side. Nothing happens in the Italian courts without the consideration and blessing of the politicos. Yes, every so-called developed nation has instances of this (Duke lacrosse team case in the US right now for example) but to be so vocal about the US system and brush off a reasoned post about a country that has a centuries-old tradition of judicial corruption, only brings into question your real motivation.
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