top and bottom vs probably donkey

neverforgetlol · #1 12-22-2006, 03:25 PM

so on another hand this guy tried to "bluff" someone with QQ on a KTTxx board. anyway, i haven't won a hand in 5 years, and my confidence is shot in this game. Here's another hand where I just don't know what to do. help?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO ($144.70)
Button ($102.85)
SB ($53.70)
Hero ($50)
UTG ($82.10)
MP ($50.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $1.5, Hero raises to $6, Button folds, SB raises to $11, Hero

holyfield5 · #2 12-22-2006, 03:39 PM

push bro

Donkey85 · #3 12-22-2006, 03:47 PM

shove your hand is good most of the time

neverforgetlol · #4 12-22-2006, 04:00 PM

i did, just checking. of course he had AJ and i lose. turn and river were both hearts so i couldn't beat anything at showdown.

SirNeb · #5 12-22-2006, 04:21 PM

Results suck but the chance he has AK, AQ is probably just as high, but unlikely on an unraised pot. I probably wouldn't shove because ones that will call you will have you beat most likely. Only cards you beat here is J2. Occasionally he would do this with an Ace high, but you can take out the high Aces since this is unraised. You are up against sets and a higher 2 pair, occasionally a flush draw. By not shoving and calling, you can eliminate a lot of hands. Besides, he just min raised, so it's an easy call.

I would definitely call here and see what he does. If he still wants to play for stacks, like PSB on the turn. You really have to worry. You RR him on the flop, so he knows you have a hand and you cold called his RR. He knows you have something, but he is not afraid and PSB bets into you. Ya, only hand you can beat is that J2, and you lose to any of the sets, and AJ. If it's a bluff, props to him, he wins.

That imo would be a better line than shoving. You have position, so I'd use it. But since he made bluff earlier, he is not that believable to have a better hand. That is what makes this decision difficult. If the read is a good reflection of 50+% of the time how he plays, then I would probably shove. But if he just made that one bad play earlier, then you might still be behind here.

I wish the results weren't out because somehow or another I might be affected by it.

Oranzith · #6 12-22-2006, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Results suck but the chance he has AK, AQ is probably just as high, but unlikely on an unraised pot. I probably wouldn't shove because ones that will call you will have you beat most likely. Only cards you beat here is J2. Occasionally he would do this with an Ace high, but you can take out the high Aces since this is unraised. You are up against sets and a higher 2 pair, occasionally a flush draw. By not shoving and calling, you can eliminate a lot of hands. Besides, he just min raised, so it's an easy call.

I would definitely call here and see what he does. If he still wants to play for stacks, like PSB on the turn. You really have to worry. You RR him on the flop, so he knows you have a hand and you cold called his RR. He knows you have something, but he is not afraid and PSB bets into you. Ya, only hand you can beat is that J2, and you lose to any of the sets, and AJ. If it's a bluff, props to him, he wins.

That imo would be a better line than shoving. You have position, so I'd use it. But since he made bluff earlier, he is not that believable to have a better hand. That is what makes this decision difficult. If the read is a good reflection of 50+% of the time how he plays, then I would probably shove. But if he just made that one bad play earlier, then you might still be behind here.

I wish the results weren't out because somehow or another I might be affected by it.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes sir, i do believe you are heavily affected by it. This is both passive and FPS, and definitely not the best line. He hit the PERFECT flop in this scenario for this hand, and now you want him to play it passively. In his range is J2/KJ/KQ/AK/AQ/AT/QQ/unlikely KK and the only hands we fear are AJ, 22, JJ, AA of which 3 make sense. Clearly push.

Also, saying there is no big Ace would not be correct, because villain is in the SB following a button call. A raise goes through two opponents, and he is OOP the entire hand. Villain is not gauranteed to raise, I probably wouldn't unless holding AK

OP - Push and grit your teeth, cooler

SirNeb · #7 12-22-2006, 05:56 PM

Maybe it's just me, I would never play a 3 way pot especially OOP w/ AK. I rather take the pot PF than to play it OOP, it's unprofitable even if I hit the flop hard.

For me, I'd be really really surprised if villian holds AK or AQ here. AJ is marginal.

Whether or not the results affected me, I do not feel it's right to open shove if you feel you have the best hand. This is for value reasons. You really don't have that many hands that you beat that will call you under my assumption. If AK, AQ hands are in here, then it would be a different story. But still it's close.

I think it's way too optimistic to think you have some of the hand ranges you mentioned in there. He might have those hands given the play but are those hands likely to call your all-in? Unlikely. So the purpose of the all-in is to be called by basically 1 or 2(or maybe hands idiots that shouldn't be calling) hands that you beat and 4 hands that you lose to. Remember, Hero is overbetting the pot here. Only few hands are willing to make such a call, hands that think they are the best. I can justify a RR that would force you to call all in with 1/3 pot equity, but I wouldn't justify going all in right now.