The Only Three Questions That Matter

[jadefox]

mr.sklansky
do you think cave men rubbed rocks, wood, and sand together and came up with an airplane?
you are rich. your chance of getting to heaven is small.
do try.

[Warren Whitmore]

(1) No
(2) No
(3) No

[pokerrookie]

Answering Yes to all three is the only +EV move. But you already knew that.

[RJT]

I agree that these are 3 very important question for one who desires to live an examined life. I agree that they are the 3 basic ones, too. I would have to give it more thought to agree 100% that they are they only ones. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume they are the only 3 questions.

From what I have read of your posts, I do not think you will find answers to the questions with your methodology. Reading philosophers will not get you there, true. But, science (math, physics, whatever) won’t get you there either. Both will add value to the search - mostly from the process of elimination.

Eventually, if you want answers, you will have to study the theologians. They of course won’t give you the answers, per se. But, it is through theology that you will find something that either hits you like a bolt out of the blue (it can also be obtained gradually) and you become a believer (in whatever); or you will remain decided that unless the answers are empirical to you (one way or another), you will remain a non-believer (in God or in no god).

At the end of the day, the result is quite easy. Either you take a leap of faith or you don’t. The leap can be in a God or in no god. Neither can be done without a leap.

I do have one question for you though, David (or any other agnostic, or atheist for the matter). You wrote something about leading a true moral life. Without getting into the arguments of why believers do try to lead such lives and the perhaps, nonsensical reasons they might be doing it, why would an agnostic care about a moral life?

I can see leading a moral life as an agnostic “just in case”. Maybe the question is more for atheists. The only other reason I can see is for the social order. And that works as a reason in the short term: I don’t want anyone messing with me, so I don’t mess with others’ order. But, in the long term picture - and this is what confuses me, for someone who understands poker as a long session and not a daily thing - why would an agnostic or atheist care about the long term social order, that is, after one is dead? I am asking a the question seriously, not rhetorically, it has always puzzled me.

[GovmentCheese]

[ QUOTE ]

I can see leading a moral life as an agnostic “just in case”. Maybe the question is more for atheists. The only other reason I can see is for the social order. And that works as a reason in the short term: I don’t want anyone messing with me, so I don’t mess with others’ order. But, in the long term picture - and this is what confuses me, for someone who understands poker as a long session and not a daily thing - why would an agnostic or atheist care about the long term social order, that is, after one is dead? I am asking a the question seriously, not rhetorically, it has always puzzled me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you care about society as an atheist? Everyone lives here together, and if one can contribute to a better life for all - then it makes sense to do so. Leading a moralistic life devoid of organized religion is a reward unto itself. You don't need a God to tell you to not kill or steal to realize that it's a good idea to maintain order and peace for yourself or your kids. The atheist comes across these ideas basicially on their own and discovers the reasons for doing such things.

I'm an atheist.. and I've learned 2 things over my life.
1. The more you try to understand God as something 'out there' the further away understanding God gets. For me, spirituality and faith come from understanding myself as a part of my surroundings.
2. I know what the afterlife is like. Everyone has experienced it before. Just think way back.. back before you were born.. that's what the afterlife is like.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I can see leading a moral life as an agnostic “just in case”. Maybe the question is more for atheists. The only other reason I can see is for the social order. And that works as a reason in the short term: I don’t want anyone messing with me, so I don’t mess with others’ order. But, in the long term picture - and this is what confuses me, for someone who understands poker as a long session and not a daily thing - why would an agnostic or atheist care about the long term social order, that is, after one is dead? I am asking a the question seriously, not rhetorically, it has always puzzled me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you care about society as an atheist? Everyone lives here together, and if one can contribute to a better life for all - then it makes sense to do so. Leading a moralistic life devoid of organized religion is a reward unto itself. You don't need a God to tell you to not kill or steal to realize that it's a good idea to maintain order and peace for yourself or your kids. The atheist comes across these ideas basicially on their own and discovers the reasons for doing such things.

I'm an atheist.. and I've learned 2 things over my life.
1. The more you try to understand God as something 'out there' the further away understanding God gets. For me, spirituality and faith come from understanding myself as a part of my surroundings.
2. I know what the afterlife is like. Everyone has experienced it before. Just think way back.. back before you were born.. that's what the afterlife is like.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say atheists should or should not care about society. I am not one. I am asking why one would care, especially looking at the larger picture, i.e., when after one dies. I mean, if this is all there is, why would I care about "for the good of society" when I am dead. I am asking what drives atheists to try to lead moral lives (the ones that do strive). For me it is harder to lead a moral life than not. Maybe it is the other way around for most others. Without my believing that there is more to life than just the here and now, I don't know if I would bother trying as hard to be moral. And, I am not just thinking of "rewards in the next life".

Another way to look at what I am trying to ask (maybe it is another question) : Why bother to procreate? Is it simply for the joy/happiness ones own children bring to oneself. If so, isn't that selfish then? I don't know, I mean life is great (sometimes) so sure, share the joy of living by bringing someone into it - that is a reason, too. I just don't know if I would bother is all.

[GovmentCheese]

[ QUOTE ]

I didn't say atheists should or should not care about society. I am not one. I am asking why one would care, especially looking at the larger picture, i.e., when after one dies. I mean, if this is all there is, why would I care about "for the good of society" when I am dead. I am asking what drives atheists to try to lead moral lives (the ones that do strive). For me it is harder to lead a moral life than not. Maybe it is the other way around for most others. Without my believing that there is more to life than just the here and now, I don't know if I would bother trying as hard to be moral. And, I am not just thinking of "rewards in the next life".

Another way to look at what I am trying to ask (maybe it is another question) : Why bother to procreate? Is it simply for the joy/happiness ones own children bring to oneself. If so, isn't that selfish then? I don't know, I mean life is great (sometimes) so sure, share the joy of living by bringing someone into it - that is a reason, too. I just don't know if I would bother is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm unsure what portion of your religion drives *you* to do these things. If you know the answer and can seperate them from your religion - then I think you'd have your answer.

I don't believe there is a moral reason to procreate or not procreate (doesn't seem to be the case for celibate priests)... but there are certainly reasons to be a moral individual.

I guess the main difference is that leading a moral life has rewards in *this* life, and not the next. Atheists aren't working the angle to get into heaven... it's not their concern, but I think most people feel a duty to be productive in society for the greater good. God doesn't necessarily have to be involved. Leading a moral life not only affects yourself in a positive way, but those around you.

[Will.]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can all agree on this:

Whether God created the universe is a question that by itself is important only for the intellectually curious.

What is important to know is

1. Is there a God that will intervene in your life based on what you or others do, say, or, feel? In other words can charitable actions, prayers, or espousing beliefs, cause an omnipotent God to change things in a way he would not have already done.

2. Is there a possibility of life after death and is there a God who will decide whether that happens to you and in what manner, based on what you do, say or feel.

3. Is there a possibility that there is an afterlife of some sort even if God doesn't exist, and if so can it be altered by what you do, say or feel?

[/ QUOTE ]are you dying?

If a god were to exist I think that it would just be our accumulated consciousness/energy, which could include matter (universal consciousness theory). I like to think that there is a such thing as an eternal self, though. I think even if life is pointless and god doesn't exist, it has been proven that our bodie's matter and our energy are eternal. Our entire struggle to find a point to life is subconsciously driven by the illusion of time, so even if life is "pointless" it doesn't really matter.

[Torgeir23]

Ok, I would personally classify myself as a deist. But have a few questions for u

if there was a god, wouldn't he be capable, or wouldn't he\she\it or whatever, exist beyond out comprehension? Just like when u were a child ur parents existed beynd ur comprehension?

Can a higher being be able to think outside 'the box'. i.e. what we think is 'logic' he\she\it (from now on referred to as hir) would not be logic. When u were a child, u didn't find all ur parents decisions logical, did u? A higher being could be protecting us from making bad mistakes, even thou those decisions made no sense to us. Or did all ur parents decisions make sense to you because u are so intelligent?

As an intelligent person, u have to b able to see that u dont know it all and that there could be persons or higher entitys out there who knows a lot more than u. What you know is based on your reality tunnel. Your reality tunnel is right for you, but does not necessarily have to be the right reality tunnel for someone else.

I used to have a lot of respect for you, but lost it all when you started to attack religious people. In my eyes you are a fundamentalist atheist. And I love to discuss this further with u. I am not religious. I am a deist. There is a god out there, but hir doesnt care.

People should accept other people's religious beliefs. It is the inability to do so that has caoused most problems in the world lately.

[Piers]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a God that will intervene in your life based on what you or others do, say, or, feel? In other words can charitable actions, prayers, or espousing beliefs, cause an omnipotent God to change things in a way he would not have already done.

[/ QUOTE ]

No

[ QUOTE ]
2. Is there a possibility of life after death and is there a God who will decide whether that happens to you and in what manner, based on what you do, say or feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

No (but see below)

[ QUOTE ]
3. Is there a possibility that there is an afterlife of some sort even if God doesn't exist, and if so can it be altered by what you do, say or feel?

[/ QUOTE ]

Extremely unlikely; dependent on definition of afterlife. Maybe with sufficiently advanced technology we could perform some form of resurrection or reincarnation, which might be construed as life after death. Also in some circumstances it would also not be ridiculous for the patient to consider the resurrecting doctor to be a god. Its all a matter of defining exactly what you mean.