2-7 Split Pot Offer

[SellingtheDrama]

When I was starting out in live poker, it was in a game (10/20 2 way at the Taj) that is basically all regulars and one or two live seats. Its fairly annoying the way that half a dozen sharks would just come out after the new 'kid' (I'm in my 20s, generally the youngest at the table by at least 30 years) until I proved my chops against them.

These guys were very protective of their 'own', checking down, showing cards to neighbors, etc. They never did anything that a floor or dealer would flip over, but they came close constantly.

I realized that my EV was highest by playing along, to a degree. I did just enough reciprocation that they would consider me a regular (and not gang up on me). I carefully chose the cards I showed and the moves I made, showing hands that would be played in a very straightforward manner (and very few of them, just enough to get by....they didn't understand the difference between my folding QJ4 in stud8 and them showing me A29 (and them playing the pot), so I trade a null information hand for a very valuable one. I also would check-down, just a little less and with my marginal hands that I'm more than happy to see free cards/showdowns with (hands I'd check back in any normal game against a reasonable opp). I can't say I enjoy that behavior, so I stopped playing that table. Unfortunately, its what it takes to play in that game long-run.

Nowadays, I'm not inclined to show the cards, etc...but I still try to provide whatever atmosphere that I think is going to get a good game going. Telling stories, keeping the table laughing, etc are just as important IMO in creating a winning game as any poker play.

The line I'll never cross is giving information to a player who is in the pot, whether or not I am in it. That changes the dynamics of a hand (I tell a guy I folded 43 in holdem, he changes his play if he has 44 or 33).

Yeah its a slippery slope, and I don't like it overall. Sadly, in the smaller parts of the poker world (in terms of player base), its a part of life.

[MarkGritter]

I used the twodimes calculator (http://twodimes.net/poker) in 2-7 lowball mode.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2254550

Here's how I explain the nonintunitive result about the smoother straight draw being worse:

Most of the time, one player catches lower than the other so the relative smoothness doesn't come into play anyway.

The cases where the 6's "kicker" matters are:
Both players catch the same card 8+: 7*(4*3) = 84 "wins" for the 6 draw.
Both players catch the same 234: 3*(2*1) = 6 "wins" for the 6 draw.
Both players catch their highest pair: 3*3 = 9 "wins" for the 6 draw.

The cases where the straight matters are:
The 6432 draw can catch one of four reamining 5s. When he does so, all of the remaining cards are wins for the 7 draw. So that is 4*(52-4-4-1) = 172 cases where the 6 makes a straight and loses. Now, although many of these cases the 7 would win against other draws as well, you can see that there are a lot more possibilities where the 5 hurts than where the smoother draw helps.

Also note that the 7432 hitting its best card is better than the 6 hitting its best card, the 7's 2nd-best card is better than the 6's 2nd-best card, etc., and it all adds up. There just aren't enough cases where both players hit the same card to overcome the disadvantages.

(This is a very handwavy argument but I think it's more enlightening then working through all the cases in detail.)

[fnord_too]

Not to get into the ethics side (though I would probably be if the fish aren't being offered chops I don't want them either), but I have two questions:

1. Do you show after the last draw (I assume the chop is before anyone looks at their last card).
2. In either case, how would one best exploit this? I mean, if you drew two the round before and double bricked, in position it is clear to draw one and chop and oop you are probably better off drawing one and hoping your opponent does, too, if the pot is not small. Though if you show down anyway, I suspect you won't be offered chops for too long [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]