Two PP hands, 66 and 99

TommyO · #1 12-17-2006, 01:33 PM

Loose passive live 3/6 LHE game.

I'm in middle position with 66. UTG raises all-in, two cold calls. I look to my left and see another guy with a short stack counting out a raise. It looks like it's going to get capped with anywhere from 5-7 players seeing the flop. Raise or fold?

A few hands later I get 99 again in middle position. Two limpers and the player to my right raises. If I cold call I would expect a few others to come along. Do I raise and try to get it heads-up or do I call and try to get odds for hitting a set?

TripleH68 · #2 12-17-2006, 01:44 PM

Fold the 66. Your odds are cut down. This hand will make money when you flop a set and collect lots of bets. You can't do that when two players are all in.

In my experience in these loose/passive games you aren't going to knock out the early limpers by raising. Given that I would just call here.

kyzerjose · #3 12-18-2006, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience in these loose/passive games you aren't going to knock out the early limpers by raising. Given that I would just call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2 right?
IMO calling is the worst option if you think raising won't get the limpers to fold.

You are IP.
Your hand is ahead of a wide range of hands EP will limp and MP will raise.

DonkSlayer · #4 12-18-2006, 02:13 PM

You are appx. 8:1 to flop a set with a pckt pair.

If the pot is going to lay you better than that preflop, get your money in.

TommyO · #5 12-18-2006, 02:34 PM

kyzerjose, I think I'm with TripleH on this one. I'd rather play my 9s against 6-7 opponents than 3-4. If I knew that raising would get it heads-up it would be an easy raise.

On the 66 hand I didn't take into account the loss of implied odds when two of the players were all-in and i agree that I should have folded pre-flop.

kyzerjose · #6 12-19-2006, 08:44 AM

TommyO

I re-read TH's comments and perhaps I misunderstood what he was saying regarding 99. Initially I thought he was suggesting players left to act would come along as well as the early limpers. In that case, raising does make more sense.
If raising would force out players left to act as well as the EP limpers, then calling may be the better line.
While Donk is technically correct on his 8:1 set flop, I believe you can play the hand getting as little as 6:1, if you're reasonably certain you can make up the difference post-flop.
How often do you play at Canterbury? I'm usually out there 2-3 times a week grinding away on 3/6 & 4/8. Tu, Fr, Su.

TommyO · #7 12-19-2006, 10:16 AM

kyzerjose,

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying you don't like a raise if the limpers will fold? For me that is the only reason I would consider raising. I either want to play the hand heads-up or see the flop with > 6 players. Please elaborate.

As far as Canterbury is concerned, I get out there about once a week. I also play 3/6 and 4/8 for the most part. I've taken a couple of shots at the bigger games but every time I do it I get cold decked and I have to drop back down. I may be there Thursday night to watch the Vikings/Packers game. I'm assuming they get NFL network.

TripleH68 · #8 12-19-2006, 12:12 PM

When you cold call with your 99 be sure to say "well let's build a pot for someone" as you casually toss your chips into the middle.

Should you miss be sure to congratulate the winner and comment on the nice size of the pot.

TommyO · #9 12-19-2006, 02:00 PM

TripleH,

In your earlier post you seemed to be advocating cold calling rather than raising. Are you saying that folding is the best option here? i.e. folding > cold calling > raising? I really want to know what you guys think because I struggle with these types of hands. Keep in mind that this is a loose/passive table and I would expect a couple more cold callers if I don't raise.

Thanks.

TripleH68 · #10 12-19-2006, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TripleH,

In your earlier post you seemed to be advocating cold calling rather than raising. Are you saying that folding is the best option here? i.e. folding > cold calling > raising? I really want to know what you guys think because I struggle with these types of hands. Keep in mind that this is a loose/passive table and I would expect a couple more cold callers if I don't raise.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for any confusion bud,

I would cold call with that 99 hand given the way you describe the table. I love those games where everyone gets in the gambling mood and my comments were meant only to encourage callers, which you should welcome. Sounds to me like you have the right idea. I am also envious as I don't get to play live poker very much at all. Later.