Collusion on Full Tilt

[Tappy Tibbons]

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Where I live, there are at least 3-4 open wireless networks I can log onto. So theoretically, I could site at a table with 4 friends without having the same IP address anyway. So I'm not really worried about this to be honest.

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I have the same situation where I live too. I'm thinking of setting up an open wireless network and sniffer just to see if someone is dumb enough to log into a real-money poker account over it.

[Eagles]

Just maybe people would notice if a group of people always sat at the same tables.

[BurnleyMik]

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Six monkeys playing poker at the same table does not mean they can win.

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ROTFL....it would give them a massive edge knowing 12 of the 52 cards that were out, but sites would spot this behaviour very quickly. I believe they have software that looks for these sorts of things.

[Mr.K]

the discussion in this thread has either been ridiculously incomplete or intentionally misleading for the most part. collusion among ring game players is and certainly can be a threat, even at low stakes - contrary to the claims that it is not a real threat. Even moreso if the colluders are well programmed bots (proof of which I am not sure exists specifically wrt collusion -- could be wrong on this).

Anyone who says this is not a real consideration is thinking wishfully or misleading you. The fact is, though, you're going to have to put your faith in the sites to combat it, because as I see things there isn't much an individual player can do to spot it (aside from truly massive datamining and then using some fancy algorithms to spot collusive behavior).

EDIT: I'll also add that anecdotally, on most of my B&M trips, college kids I've run into have consistently been very open about the fact that they collude via their wireless LANs in cash games and tourneys. I don't think this is necessarily evidence of a larger problem, but I do gather that in those environments you're probably a little more likely to find this kind of behavior given the potential concentration of players, easy net access, multiple laptops, etc.

[illNana]

All I am trying to say is that Full Tilt does not give you the same protection that Party Poker did. When you would try to sit down at the same table with a player who either played on your home network, or has transferred money to you, Party Poker would say something like "There is an affiliatin between player A and Player B so you will not be able to play at this table". Full Tilt doesn't do that.

[Sniper]

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Even moreso if the colluders are well programmed bots (proof of which I am not sure exists specifically wrt collusion -- could be wrong on this).

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In the interest of eliminating any doubt you might have... FACT: Bot collusion software exists!

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The fact is, though, you're going to have to put your faith in the sites to combat it, because as I see things there isn't much an individual player can do to spot it (aside from truly massive datamining and then using some fancy algorithms to spot collusive behavior).

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I believe at least one purpose of this thread, was to point out that Full Tilt was not even doing the most basic level of collusion detection!... stopping players on the same network conection from playing at the same tables.

Maybe we'll get a statement on this from FTPDoug in a future thread...

[Webster]

Well - if a person does not notice that the same players always sit at the same table they SHOULD be colluded (is that a word?). THIS case of collusion is pretty easy to spot wit the eyeball.

I know I have a number of player notes telling me to watch so and so and make sure they are not at a table with another players.

On another note - this type of collusion happens a LOT in casinos. How many times to friends sit at the same poker table. Think that is ever a problem?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not poo pooing the collusion thing but it is certainly not a "sky is falling " thing.

[Mr.K]

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Even moreso if the colluders are well programmed bots (proof of which I am not sure exists specifically wrt collusion -- could be wrong on this).

[/ QUOTE ]

In the interest of eliminating any doubt you might have... FACT: Bot collusion software exists!

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is, though, you're going to have to put your faith in the sites to combat it, because as I see things there isn't much an individual player can do to spot it (aside from truly massive datamining and then using some fancy algorithms to spot collusive behavior).

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe at least one purpose of this thread, was to point out that Full Tilt was not even doing the most basic level of collusion detection!... stopping players on the same network conection from playing at the same tables.

Maybe we'll get a statement on this from FTPDoug in a future thread...

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Thanks for replying, Sniper. I think we have to do a lot of accounting for the source from which our info comes in these forums, and yours has always been a reliable voice. Sad to hear about the bot collusion software, but I guess not surprised. In your view, where is this software the greatest threat (10 handed cash games? 6max? MTTs? Omaha?)

[limitninja]

OR MAYBE FULL TILT WILL JUST CLOSE EVERYONE'S ACCOUNTS AND STEAL THEIR MONEY

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
Well - if a person does not notice that the same players always sit at the same table they SHOULD be colluded (is that a word?). THIS case of collusion is pretty easy to spot wit the eyeball.

I know I have a number of player notes telling me to watch so and so and make sure they are not at a table with another players.

On another note - this type of collusion happens a LOT in casinos. How many times to friends sit at the same poker table. Think that is ever a problem?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not poo pooing the collusion thing but it is certainly not a "sky is falling " thing.

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Fair point -- this is NOT an exclusively online thing... but in terms of scale the potential for damage is much greater online than B&M. I also agree that the sky isn't falling, but it is moving slowly and surely in a dangerous direction, and we'll be royally [censored] as players in due time if corrective action isn't taken on an adaptive basis by the cardrooms.

One question: B&M casinos all (mostly) subscribe to a security service that IDs barred players. This comes up in the MIT blackjack books... forget the name of the company, but one of its strengths is its wide scope/reach. Do online cardrooms employ a similar blackball service that tracks, identifies, and weeds out colluders? If not, such players could easily just bounce from cardroom to cardroom without much trouble. Again, seems like this would be an area where players would benefit in a tax & regulate model (instead of de facto prohibition).