3/6 75o, Hand vs. 2+2'er

Harv72b · #1 12-15-2006, 08:13 AM

Had this somewhat interesting hand happen earlier this morning. MP2 is a donk of the 40/0/1 variety over a 60 or so hand sample. About the only noteworthy thing I've seen him do is limp in with a big pair and then bet an ace-high flop anyway into a bunch of overlimpers. This has worked out for him as he has a knack for turning sets.

Button is a 2+2'er who knows me & likely has a good read on me via these boards & past hands against each other. He's running pretty cold at this table and has taken a couple of bad beats since I joined. I, too, am running fairly bad. He has seen me allegedly fold AA for 1 bet on the river, and the hand prior to this one I had 3bet his CO raise behind 1 limper, bet/called a Q high, 2-suited flop, and check/raised/folded a blank turn against him.

Button paused for some time before raising preflop, which is unusual for him. I read that as a sign of strength, rather than indecision, and was actually fairly convinced that he held a good-sized overpair.

The turn is probably the only street not worth discussing. Have fun! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (6.5SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.

Turn: (7.25BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (9.25BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: 11.25BB

Allday Everyday · #2 12-15-2006, 08:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Button paused for some time before raising preflop, which is unusual for him. I read that as a sign of strength, rather than indecision, and was actually fairly convinced that he held a good-sized overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know you know the player, but how could you be convinced he holds a good sized overpair? An isolation raise with only a moderate hand seems to make sense here.

I think you should have folded preflop. I would have called if it was suited.

So you flop top pair on the board with an open-ender. On the flop I think you're a slight underdog to an overpair and a big favourite over high cards. I think the flop check-raise is good.

I think the turn is good.

I think you should have check-called the river.

Kvacke · #3 12-15-2006, 08:39 AM

If your read was the button having a good sized overpair wouldnt it be a fold preflopp then? Flop and turn seems good to me. Not sure about the riverbetting. what about c/c on the river?

Niediam · #4 12-15-2006, 08:44 AM

Preflop: If you can make money with this then great but I'm not sure that us mortals can. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Flop: love it

Turn: great

River: Is this meant to be a bluff? If so I'm not very high on the chances of it working. But then you only need villian to fold 10% of the time...

Allday Everyday · #5 12-15-2006, 08:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If your read was the button having a good sized overpair wouldnt it be a fold preflopp then?

[/ QUOTE ]
If he 'knew' the villain had an good sized overpair, I think it might also make the flop a check-call. However, I think we should put the villain on a slightly wider range than this so making the flop check-raise correct IMO.

Harv72b · #6 12-15-2006, 08:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River: Is this meant to be a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Spoiler bet. I doubt that he's raising with an overpair on the 4-straight, paired board (especially after all the action I gave thus far), but if I check and he bets I'm toast pretty much all the time. Getting 10:1, though, I pretty much have to make the crying call. Tack on that he might actually find a fold for one of those overpairs, and it seemed a better play than check/calling.

James. · #7 12-15-2006, 08:58 AM

that river sucks. i think our bet has one purpose and that is to induce the 2p2er to fold. i don't think he folds ANY pocket pair. i also don't think he has AK/AQ unless he a)puts way too much value in it UI or b)thinks you are a habitual bluffer. IMO he is not folding a PP here ever against you. i think i would check the river and expect it to check through most of the time. i may be missing something, but i just don't think i like this river bet. that said, i would assume the other 2p2er should be able to find folds, but not when his hand just outran a portion of your range when the board pairs.

as an aside, how do all of you guys know each other as 2p2ers? is it just the names? i remember having Harv in some old 2/4 Party databases and his name was always Harv72c or some such related name. i've been asked at the table and i simply don't respond. for some reason i've always been reserved about letting other 2p2ers know i'm a 2p2er as well.

lasa · #8 12-15-2006, 09:09 AM

I'd fold PF. Wouldn't cap the flop. Turn donk is good as played. PP just outdrew you on river and if you think that's a big part of his range I'd just check/call.

Harv72b · #9 12-15-2006, 09:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
as an aside, how do all of you guys know each other as 2p2ers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I play as Harv72b on FT & Stars; the Party screenname was just because I'd used Harv72b on Empire back in the day. As far as knowing this player & Bob T., they both introduced themselves to me on the tables. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The other 2+2'ers that I have tagged but don't have a sceenname match to go with, I just know because they either gave the "sup bro" at some point, or said hi to me out of the blue. I don't credit too many random players with the friendly nature required to just say "hi" to anyone at their table. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

FWIW, I generally like the fact that so many people recognize my name. I think it gets me an odd combination of respect & extra action at the tables...most people who recognize me realize that I (usually) have a big hand if I PFR from EP or 3bet another tight player, and I like to think that they expect I'll hold my own postflop if they do decide to enter the hand. In blind steal situations especially, though, people know that I'm capable of stealing with almost any two cards, and that I will continue betting with air at least through the turn most times. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

jackdaniels · #10 12-15-2006, 12:00 PM

Interesting hand.

With another player in there (MP2) I would defend with this hand about 75% of the time. Heads up, unless I was planning on a flop re-steal (C/R any flop), I prolly muck this (being OOP).

I am capping this flop and leading the turn much more often against overcards (if that is my read) and playing more conservatively if I really think the guy is on an overpair. This is to deny a free card on the turn.

River - I am C/C here. My hand just got killed by an overpair, any flopped set just filled up and while I gain a bet when I get called down by overcards, I think we will lose an extra bet more often here by a hand that improved to beat us. Betting this river for value is very thin IMO and C/C will produce the same profit (cause sometimes they will bluff bet AK/AQ or another hand that missed).

Did you have a plan if you got raised on the river?