A8s, pairs the 8 on a paired board

[Harkon]

Turn raisers,

What if the turn was K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] instead of K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], giving me the nut flush draw? The problem would be that if I raise and he 3-bets, I can't really fold.

[FatedEquity]

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Turn raisers,

What if the turn was K instead of K, giving me the nut flush draw? The problem would be that if I raise and he 3-bets, I can't really fold.

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Being 3-bet with the nut draw wouldn't be too big a problem because you can still fold safely to at river bet if you miss. In addition, you collect an extra bet when you do hit that you might not have otherwise attained, so there is a benefit to raising.

If a 3-bet is especially likely though, then calling down is almost always better than raising for a free showdown. This play is especially bad in situations where you cannot fold to the 3-bet/river bet if it backfires because you believe your hand is too strong to miss a showdown.

[Xhad]

I don't make this type of turn raise if I can't fold to a turn 3bet. BTW, getting 3bet and rivering an A does put you in a gross spot.

[fretelöo]

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Thanks for the comments, everbody.

During the hand my spider-sense was tingling big time and I caught him firing three barrels with complete air (Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]), something I hadn't seem him do before, patted myself to the back and moved on to the next hand.

Later on I started thinking about the hand and if I really had enough to make the turn call, and the consensus seems to be I don't. I find it hard to argue with.

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Very interesting. And good for you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I would watch this guy closely for the next few sessions.
Two words of caution before assuming him to be an occasional bluffer:
- I have a note on a guy that says "Raises 94o" I have no idea what this one hand was about. He was 3betting with 94o pf and remained aggressive the whole hand - and lost. No blind steal. Usually, he's not the worst on the table, but looked like a complete idiot there. I assume a glitch. Maybe clicked the wrong button and felt like he should follow through? Wait until you see him do this a few more times when in the blinds against a raise from LP until you take a note. If he does, of course, that note is gold.
- Blind-steals are special. I've found myself raising with T4s in LP trying to steal the blinds, and getting pushed back at pf. I called and the flop was rags. And even while I was thinking "what the hell are you doing here?!?" I could watch my self clicking the raise button repeatedly. Of course I lost the hand and felt like a complete idiot. Sometimes you're simply not reacting rationally. Especially in blindsteal-situations where it boils down to - more or less - a pissing contest.

[Bruce D]

I find lately that the guy who donks the turn in this situation is bluffing or semibluffing more than value betting. If he wanted value out of the hand, he would have 3 bet the flop or c/r the turn. To me this looks like a case of "Strong means weak and weak means strong" and given that you have seen him do the "Weak means strong" bit, he is certainly capable of the other.

I definitely go to showdown with this.

[jrz1972]

I'm not folding this turn. Villain is going to have a weaker 8 or some pocket underpair often enough to a showdown worthwhile. Plus, we already have a read that this guy slowplays huge hands heads-up and likes to run bluffs with air.

I don't like running the free showdown play against erratic players, so I probably just play it the way OP did.