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#21
12-14-2006, 05:02 PM
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Re: low FD flop action
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you think KT and 99 are going to put any more money in to the pot if we call the flop? [/ QUOTE ] do you WANT KT and 99 to put more money in the pot? [/ QUOTE ] srsly true....i was just proving you made a pretty bad point. kt/99 probably won't put any more money in the pot after the flop if we call but that's not the point. [/ QUOTE ] wtf is the bad point that I made? We can bluff marginal hands later, we don't NEED to do it now. 
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#23
12-14-2006, 05:04 PM
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Re: low FD flop action
My point is that if fold equity is our only equity in the pot why does our flush draw even matter? A TAG is flatcalling very few hands on that board, he's folding a lot and pushing some. If we're not calling the push then this play is the same with any two cards.
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#24
12-14-2006, 05:05 PM
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Re: low FD flop action
[ QUOTE ]
i don't know i'm confused. but calling > raising this flop for me for sure. [/ QUOTE ] I think that calling is probably best as well, although I raised. I looked back at the hand and was trying to understand why I raised. I don't think it is best although I think it is still viable some of the time.
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#25
12-14-2006, 05:06 PM
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Re: low FD flop action
[ QUOTE ]
My point is that if fold equity is our only equity in the pot why does our flush draw even matter? A TAG is flatcalling very few hands on that board, he's folding a lot and pushing some. If we're not calling the push then this play is the same with any two cards. [/ QUOTE ] I agree very much with this.
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#26
12-14-2006, 05:11 PM
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Re: low FD flop action
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i don't know i'm confused. but calling > raising this flop for me for sure. [/ QUOTE ] I think that calling is probably best as well, although I raised. I looked back at the hand and was trying to understand why I raised. I don't think it is best although I think it is still viable some of the time. [/ QUOTE ] There are a lot of guys who won't shove with bigger draws here (most will, some nits won't). To those that won't shove with bigger draws, you can raise more often. That is, if my read on a guy is "c-bets too much" or "nitty postflop" or both, I'm probably going to raise this flop slightly more than I call it. To most other players, I'll often float this flop with a million draws, middle pairs, and even monsters. In this case, I'm calling much more often, and it's my favorite option. But I still vary the two.
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#27
12-14-2006, 05:21 PM
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Re: low FD flop action
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i don't know i'm confused. but calling > raising this flop for me for sure. [/ QUOTE ] I think that calling is probably best as well, although I raised. I looked back at the hand and was trying to understand why I raised. I don't think it is best although I think it is still viable some of the time. [/ QUOTE ] There are a lot of guys who won't shove with bigger draws here (most will, some nits won't). To those that won't shove with bigger draws, you can raise more often. That is, if my read on a guy is "c-bets too much" or "nitty postflop" or both, I'm probably going to raise this flop slightly more than I call it. To most other players, I'll often float this flop with a million draws, middle pairs, and even monsters. In this case, I'm calling much more often, and it's my favorite option. But I still vary the two. [/ QUOTE ] This is the other point. Any half decent player will be floating this flop with a lot of hands. If you want to abuse the scary spade when you have 8d9d you have to show up with a flush sometimes. You can't play race to the felt every time you flop a flush draw. The main point is that raise/folding is retarded.
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#30
12-15-2006, 07:36 AM
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Re: low FD flop action
[ QUOTE ]
Just curious: If you raise this to say 650 and villain calls, pot is now like 1400 and we got 1300 behind, turn is a complete brick (ie. 2d), checked to you on the turn, Hero...? [/ QUOTE ] I think I'd shove any card. I think he almost always 3-bets all in with a big hand, on the flop.
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