Caesars Palace LV is starting up a BBJ in January

[Don Olney]

It does bring some in to play the low limit games 4/8, 3/6 and such.
To many tables on the strip, not enough players = -EV promotions for players....

[bernie]

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You know this for a fact? I've always figured they could not keep anything for admin costs because then they'd be violating the max rake set by the Nevada Gaming Commission. Long as they are returning 100% of the money to the players, it seems kosher. If they are not, write a letter to the GC asking why they're allowed to overrake.


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In Wa St they are able to keep up to 10% for admin costs. Not sure how it works in Vegas. But yes, it is possible they might keep some of it.

b

[bernie]

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Thanks for posting this.

I can officially cross Caesars off my list of good poker rooms in Vegas.

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why? Your favorite room the venetian had a BBJ...seems like a good idea in generating traffic


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No comparison. Venetians was HOUSE funded (no additional rake/drop) and was a promotion. Caesars will be player funded, taking an additional $1 rake from every pot (usually $10-$20 minimum). Also, there is no requirement that 100% of the money goes back to the players. Some casinos retain as much as 15% for "administrative costs". To boot, when the BBJ is paid out, it will be taxed, so even less of the $1 taken from each pot will be returned to the players.

This is why none of the best rooms in Vegas has a regular BBJ or high hand jackpot (i.e. Bellagio, Wynn, Venetian, MGM Grand).

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It's nice that you completely ignore any additonal action a BBJ may bring in that might more than compensate for that $1 being dropped. It's a factor most anti-BBJ nits overlook.

One of the reasons those places don't have a BBJ is because they have more a constant stream of players coming in. It makes more sense in smaller areas, like Seattle, to do it.

So, if the Caesars game actually becomes softer because of it, in comparison to other rooms, you won't play it?

b

[RR]

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It's nice that you completely ignore any additonal action a BBJ may bring in that might more than compensate for that $1 being dropped. It's a factor most anti-BBJ nits overlook.


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I think a BBJ decreases action. It brings some players in, but these are not the players you want in your poker room. A BBJ brings in people that occupy seats to pass time hoping to hit a jackpot. You want to play poker against people that are there to have fun, not people hoping to hit a jackpot. The next step is for those people to start lobbying the management (they are there everyday, they must be the best customers) for things like smaller blinds, maybe they could lower the music, and maybe suck all the joy out of the room so those pesky toursits that like to raise preflop will stay out of our room (once you invite the jackpot chasers in they want the gambling types out).

[bernie]

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I think a BBJ decreases action. It brings some players in, but these are not the players you want in your poker room. A BBJ brings in people that occupy seats to pass time hoping to hit a jackpot. You want to play poker against people that are there to have fun, not people hoping to hit a jackpot.

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It doesn't decrease action. Not play-wise.

Most people playing to win a JP also play to have fun. It gives them something extra to shoot for. I have yet to see some strict, grumbling BBJ player who only plays serious for the JP.

It's the serious nits that don't want the JP because they're so concerned about rake. People there to have fun don't hardly notice rake anyways. Most of them treat it as one step above a pit game. You want that type of player in your game.

What kinds of hands do you think JP players play? How does that decrease action? They'll play looser preflop(incorrectly) hoping to hit a JP or a draw at a JP postflop. The game should become quite a bit softer.

The only thing I'd have against it in vegas is there's a large influx of people already there coming and going so I'm not sure how much this will add to the room given all the options already available in the area. This can lessen the effect of extra action coming in. I'm not so sure it will draw the visitors from other hotels with cardrooms. Basically, it might help keep some players who are staying there to play there. But I think many who it'd affect will stay and play there anyways.

b

[T50_Omaha8]

Sorry to ask such a newbie question, but do BBJ's only go for HE? It would seem unfair for Omaha to get a crack at it, and thus it would also seem unfair for Omaha to pay for it as well.

And (as a semi-tourist donkey) I don't think most complete tourist donkeys are well connected enough to really know much about what a BBJ is, let alone switch casinos based on them. Casinos are designed to entrap and confuse, not inform, the tourist type. But I see how this could make a game more profitable for the sarcastic (no--rational) player, since gambooolers would be cold calling their 23s against a cap.

[RR]

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Most people playing to win a JP also play to have fun. It gives them something extra to shoot for. I have yet to see some strict, grumbling BBJ player who only plays serious for the JP.

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This is becasue you don't live in Vegas. Next trip there drive to Palace Station, Boulder Station, and Sam's Town, that is what happens when you have a BBJ.

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What kinds of hands do you think JP players play? How does that decrease action? They'll play looser preflop(incorrectly) hoping to hit a JP or a draw at a JP postflop. The game should become quite a bit softer.

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The game becomes softer as they play more hands and they don't raise. But the game changes. They lobby for games that have less action. $4-$8 game? sure let's lower the blinds to $1-$2 so it doesn't cost so much to sit here. These players are very weak, but they are taking up a seat that someone that raises in the dark might want to sit in. There will be more games, but there won't be more of the people that hemorrage chips. These jackpot players are not good players at all, but they are better than the typical casino player.

[LasVegasMichael]

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Most people playing to win a JP also play to have fun. It gives them something extra to shoot for. I have yet to see some strict, grumbling BBJ player who only plays serious for the JP.

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This is becasue you don't live in Vegas. Next trip there drive to Palace Station, Boulder Station, and Sam's Town, that is what happens when you have a BBJ.

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What kinds of hands do you think JP players play? How does that decrease action? They'll play looser preflop(incorrectly) hoping to hit a JP or a draw at a JP postflop. The game should become quite a bit softer.

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The game becomes softer as they play more hands and they don't raise. But the game changes. They lobby for games that have less action. $4-$8 game? sure let's lower the blinds to $1-$2 so it doesn't cost so much to sit here. These players are very weak, but they are taking up a seat that someone that raises in the dark might want to sit in. There will be more games, but there won't be more of the people that hemorrage chips. These jackpot players are not good players at all, but they are better than the typical casino player.

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QFT. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks Randy.

[chaucerchick]

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Sorry to ask such a newbie question, but do BBJ's only go for HE? It would seem unfair for Omaha to get a crack at it, and thus it would also seem unfair for Omaha to pay for it as well.

And (as a semi-tourist donkey) I don't think most complete tourist donkeys are well connected enough to really know much about what a BBJ is, let alone switch casinos based on them. Casinos are designed to entrap and confuse, not inform, the tourist type. But I see how this could make a game more profitable for the sarcastic (no--rational) player, since gambooolers would be cold calling their 23s against a cap.

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Omaha games don't qualify for the Hold-em Jackpot. Some places, if they have both games, offer a separate Omaha jackpot (and stud jackpots too), but there is usually a harder qualifier. I believe at the Orleans the qualifier for Omaha starts at 4 jacks or better beat, whereas the holdem qualifier starts at any 4 of a kind.

And in terms of attracting customers, once the BBJ gets over a certain amount and the qualifiers get easier, the room explodes with people (overwhelmingly locals)tyring to hit it.

[T50_Omaha8]

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the room explodes with people (overwhelmingly locals)tyring to hit it.

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like a good way to keep me out of the poker room.