(.50/1) Overpair on turn w/flush draw, should I call all-in?

[bema03]

Reads: Villain is a solid player who usually only bets if he has something.
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Game ID 676198086 starting - 2006-02-06 14:50:29
Frozen Over [Hold 'em] (0.50|1.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

UTG ($110.95)
Hero ($289.57)
CO ($99.70)
Button ($60.03)
SB ($34.80)
BB Villain ($176.95)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
1 fold, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, 3 folds, Villain calls $2

Flop ($4.50): 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Villian bets $4, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, Villain raises to $20, <font color="red">Hero raises to $32</font>, Villain calls.

Turn: ($68.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Villian checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $60</font>, Villain raises all-in for $143.95, <font color="red">Hero ??</font>

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I'll post the results later. Thanks in advance for all feedback.

[Ness]

God no. I would have checked the turn.

[fishfather]

don't like preflop raise--too small.

don't like flop min raise, either time.

turn--perfect place to take a free card.

Often raises mean that 1 pair is beaten. Sure looks like it here.

[bema03]

I called the all-in. Here's my rationale, however silly it might be. When he bet on the flop, I thought he either had a pair or was on the club draw. So I raised. When he re-raised me OTF, I eliminated club draw from the possibilities (he wouldn't reraise with a draw) but added a flopped set as a possibility. So I re-raised, again for information. Then, when he just called me instead of coming over the top again, I eliminated the possibility of a set, because I think he would have went OTT with a set. So when the third club came down and he checked, I figured I was ahead, and when he went all-in, I put him on A-9 with the Ace of clubs. I didn't think he had something like 9-6 or 7-6, which would have given him two pair, because I didn't think he would have bet and re-raised on the flop with that.

As it turns out, I was wrong because he only had 10-9 and I took down the pot.

Does that make any sense at all?

[bema03]

I hate bumping but would really like to get some feedback on my rationale for calling here. Does it make sense? Thanks.

[johnbeans]

Your assessment of the villian as a solid player seems a bit off based on the action on the flop. If you conclude he isn't re-raising with a draw and would have gone OTT with a set, then I think your call on turn is good. Maybe he would do this with JJ or TT?

[XxPenguinxX]

[ QUOTE ]
When he bet on the flop, I thought he either had a pair or was on the club draw. So I raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, but you must re-raise enough to make it wrong for him to call with the draw. You gave him 4-1 odds, which would make a call with the flush draw mandatory. Had he called here, you would have no more idea whether he had clubs or not.

[ QUOTE ]
When he re-raised me OTF, I eliminated club draw from the possibilities (he wouldn't reraise with a draw)

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, if that was your read.

[ QUOTE ]
but added a flopped set as a possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

It always is, especially after such a tiny PFR.

[ QUOTE ]
So I re-raised, again for information. Then, when he just called me instead of coming over the top again, I eliminated the possibility of a set, because I think he would have went OTT with a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're paying a lot for your information. And a frisky club draw, particularly with overcards, is still a possibility for me and still has odds to call here.

[ QUOTE ]
So when the third club came down and he checked, I figured I was ahead,

[/ QUOTE ]

So put him all in yourself, if you really believe that! Make him make the tricky decision, rather than giving him the chance to stick it to you. Personally, I check behind.

[ QUOTE ]
and when he went all-in, I put him on A-9 with the Ace of clubs. I didn't think he had something like 9-6 or 7-6, which would have given him two pair, because I didn't think he would have bet and re-raised on the flop with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is drawing rather a lot of conclusions from some very murky (albeit expensive) information.

[ QUOTE ]
As it turns out, I was wrong because he only had 10-9 and I took down the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

And it all turned out well. You read he didn't have the flush, and you were right - great call.

But you put yourself in a really tricky spot with your earlier actions. Particularly the PFR, which, as you saw, was nowhere near enough to drive out trash hands, even those being played by solid players. On a harmless-looking flop like T-9-2 rainbow you lose your stack, and even 8-7-2 rainbow puts you in significant trouble. It should be $4 at least.

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
I called the all-in. Here's my rationale, however silly it might be. When he bet on the flop, I thought he either had a pair or was on the club draw. So I raised. When he re-raised me OTF, I eliminated club draw from the possibilities (he wouldn't reraise with a draw) but added a flopped set as a possibility. So I re-raised, again for information. Then, when he just called me instead of coming over the top again, I eliminated the possibility of a set, because I think he would have went OTT with a set. So when the third club came down and he checked, I figured I was ahead, and when he went all-in, I put him on A-9 with the Ace of clubs. I didn't think he had something like 9-6 or 7-6, which would have given him two pair, because I didn't think he would have bet and re-raised on the flop with that.

As it turns out, I was wrong because he only had 10-9 and I took down the pot.

Does that make any sense at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

you're just rationalizing a bad call, this is a clear fold

[Bigmoney]

It seems like villain called in the BB solely to make a play on you but ended up flopping TP anyway. Still, against a solid player you can't make this call.