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#12
12-11-2006, 08:04 PM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
Is WA/WB appropriate for this situation?
Either he has a better Ace (maybe 2pr), or he's got a King and thinks we were trying to steal and have nothing (or he likes his King, and is not thinking what we have) Are both equally likely? I can see a good case for WB more than WA. KQ is worrying as is any A. I did shutdown and go for a cheap showdown. It's good to see others taking that type of line also. 
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#14
12-12-2006, 11:33 AM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
If we call isn't that giving SB the odds to call with middle or bottom pair? However, most of the time he will be drawing to less that 5 outs(right?) and therefore making a mistake in calling. Is this the principle behind calling here(along with what has already been added)?
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#15
12-12-2006, 12:01 PM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
It’s odd that he called your flop raise and then came out betting on the turn? If he’s got KQ or JT, why not check/raise the turn, because you’ll most likely bet if BB checks? So although this really looks that Q helped him, I would still be quite tempted to call him down.
I liked your raise preflop. A5o is favorite against two random hands.
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#16
12-12-2006, 09:09 PM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
[ QUOTE ]
I don't really worry about hands like AK, AQ and KQ. Villain would have 3-bet preflop if holding one of those. [/ QUOTE ] I agree to a certain extent, but I think this may be giving our opponents too much credit (by assuming our opponents think like we do). At this level I have seen players limp with these hands, so I can discount a little, but I think I'd limp here a fair bit with KQ (but I may be wrong to do that). I'm also not as worried about AQ or AK as something like AT or A9.
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#17
12-12-2006, 09:14 PM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
[ QUOTE ]
If we call isn't that giving SB the odds to call with middle or bottom pair? However, most of the time he will be drawing to less that 5 outs(right?) and therefore making a mistake in calling. Is this the principle behind calling here(along with what has already been added)? [/ QUOTE ] SB would be getting 8:1. 5 outs gives him 8.2:1, so he would be calling incorrectly. I did think about this, but my read was that SB was as likely to call two as one. I really don't think he was folding a King and was probably even calling two with a 3, so I really think he missed completely here. Given that he switched between maniac and calling station a fold really surprised me. Even a 3-bet with air I thought was more likely [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I've read the response as we want to call to keep the pot small. We're not making anything here by betting the whole way, as worse hands probably aren't calling us all the way. So calling makes the most when we're ahead (when BB continues to bet), and loses least when we're behind (by not getting raised/3-bet anywhere).
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#18
12-12-2006, 09:26 PM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
[ QUOTE ]
SB would be getting 8:1. 5 outs gives him 8.2:1, so he would be calling incorrectly. [/ QUOTE ] If we are going to get this exact on splitting hairs... lets nail down the odds killa! He is getting 8.4:1 on the flop! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My real point is... I generally think of 5 outs as 8:1(therefore SB's best case scenario would be break-even) because we are talking about a pretty inexact science here when it comes to out counting. I could be wrong though!
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#19
12-12-2006, 10:00 PM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
[ QUOTE ]
I don't really worry about hands like AK, AQ and KQ. Villain would have 3-bet preflop if holding one of those. [/ QUOTE ] I lot of villian's don't ... of course they are mostly all retards [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ... and the type to donk top pair
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#20
12-12-2006, 10:38 PM
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Re: Ace/rag on the button
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] SB would be getting 8:1. 5 outs gives him 8.2:1, so he would be calling incorrectly. [/ QUOTE ] If we are going to get this exact on splitting hairs... lets nail down the odds killa! He is getting 8.4:1 on the flop! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My real point is... I generally think of 5 outs as 8:1(therefore SB's best case scenario would be break-even) because we are talking about a pretty inexact science here when it comes to out counting. I could be wrong though! [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Sorry, didn't mean to be picky about the odds. I just wanted to check myself that he would be making a mistake in calling. I think you make a good point about how we want others to make a mistake and I thought that if this SB was going to make the mistake of calling one, he would also call two.
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