does anyone ever make checks like this?

[Josh.]

this is kind of old but i never posted it. PFR is a bad tag who will probably pay off 2 streets with TT if the turn and river brick, first caller is ken the cow, a super lag who will probably bet the turn, and the sb is nitty and straightforward postflop

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $5739.90
CO: $2444.40
Hero: $2243.50
SB: $1923.50
BB: $2338

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $70</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($300, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

[Matte_Maiden]

No.

[cts]

You're on the button so you'll never be given credit for anything good. I bet small-ish usually.

[Poker_Hoar]

[ QUOTE ]
You're on the button so you'll never be given credit for anything good. I bet small-ish usually.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have to bet here because it is a sin to give free cards in this situation.

its true that people will likely put you on crap if you bet in position but are these people going to c-c the flop with a hand like A8? I can see people c-c more with 99,TT,JJ but I think people are folding A8 in a 4 way pot oop when there's a large chance they will have to face another bet on turn and/or river.

So it all comes down to the type of opponents you are playing with. Are any of them ballsy enough to c-r bluff this flop since it's so dry and it got checked to the button? If so that's a reason NOT to bet since I can't imagine anyone feeling comfortable about playing for stacks here.

For those of you who advocate this check : what types of cards do we not want to see on the turn? Aces and Kings obviously will slow us down and likely make us fold to a bet but are there any others? There's no draws except a rare gutterball (JT, J9, T9) which are not only unlikely but unlikely to be filled since you've got one jack in your hand.

Overall I don't think it really matters what you do this time here but this is definately a great spot to mix it up.

edit: [ QUOTE ]
a super lag who will probably bet the turn

[/ QUOTE ] is a really good reason to check behind here as it's unlikely people will c-c with worse hands but a lot more likely to induce a bluff

[vanHelsing]

I think this is the first real valuable post I read of you, ever. nh!

[soah]

Given your reads I don't mind checking here sometimes. Against weak players who just call down with anything when they get suspicious betting is better but against strong players who might decide to "outplay you" on occasion there is a very real chance that you will sometimes get moved off the best hand (or go broke if you're too paranoid about getting bluffed) if you bet in this spot, since it looks like a spot for you to steal (dry board, gets checked to you, etc).

Your opponents should have a fair number of outs against you collectively though so you need to be pretty sure that the equity you give up by letting them all see another card is recovered by your ability to manipulate your opponents (disguise your hand and control the pot size). For this reason, I'd feel much better about doing this with KQ than QJ as it means four less cards that could come on the turn to scare me.

[DJ Sensei]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to bet here because it is a sin to give free cards in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

giving free cards here isnt a sin. paying off too much when behind AFTER giving free cards is.

but checking here may well also give us some more action when we still have the best hand, too.

so yea, checking behind here is fine, as is betting. Its a good spot to mix up your play.

I'd lean towards betting more often though. Because the pot is already a nice size, i'd like to take it right here if I may. Also, 3 other players in the hand means that many other cards could make somebody else's hand better than yours too.

[Poker_Hoar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to bet here because it is a sin to give free cards in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

giving free cards here isnt a sin. paying off too much when behind AFTER giving free cards is.

but checking here may well also give us some more action when we still have the best hand, too.

so yea, checking behind here is fine, as is betting. Its a good spot to mix up your play.

I'd lean towards betting more often though. Because the pot is already a nice size, i'd like to take it right here if I may. Also, 3 other players in the hand means that many other cards could make somebody else's hand better than yours too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your very good point. My leak is that after I give the free card I have a bad habit of not being able to release because I hate to believe they improved and I did not.

I need to work on that a little bit.

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]


I'd lean towards betting more often though. Because the pot is already a nice size, i'd like to take it right here if I may. Also, 3 other players in the hand means that many other cards could make somebody else's hand better than yours too.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much my thoughts here as well. Playing this hand slow in these spots seems to do nothing but get me in trouble, but that's partly due to my inability to fold top pair when my hand is underrepped.