NL$200, hand against 2+2er

[jk3a]

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why should I not expect second barrels when I am floating?

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This only happens with a very small frequency. Trying to pick up a second barrel when we do have a set here isn't nearly as valuable as metagame and the importance of not scaring(sp?) off the weaker made hands the villian will fold to a flop raise but call a turn bet with.

[Paul Thomson]

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not scaring off weaker made hands the villian will fold to a flop raise but call a turn bet with.

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which hands are these? JJ or QQ?

[wtfsvi]

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wtfsi,

with what hands do you like the raise? With sets/hands you want to get AI with....its v obv needless. With hands with some showdown value, its obv bad. With bluffs, its ok but floating has the same purpose, and you have to raise the flop with lots of hands for metagame that means you're playing a lot of hands far away from maximal EV, just to satisfy metagame.

I'll be back in 45 mins or so, so hopefully some more ppl can chime in. But I want to see who raises this flop and with what range and why. Andf those same people, what hands are you just calling the flop raise with?

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I like the raise with bluffs. I agree that raising here for value is not reasonable. And I agree that if the villain is good enough to reallize that and act on it, and also believes I am good enough to probably not raise this flop for value, a bluff is not reasonable either. I think this bluff would probably be better if my sn was not what it is, but still I don't think it's horrible given the table dynamics.

You all talk about metagame. Why? I have never been in this spot against villain before, if I ever am in this spot against villain again I will take metagame into account.

[Paul Thomson]

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With hands with some showdown value, its obv bad.

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If hero has QQ and calls the flop. And the Turn gets checked through. Both players will have a 3/4 pot bet left. Should the Hero call a 3/4 pot bet on the river or fold?

[orange]

Meh, I rarely, if ever, raise this flop with any hand.

With a v. strong hand (ie. set/AA/etc) in which I think I am far ahead of his range, raising might let him get off too easily (ie. maybe make him fold his QQ). He also may double barrel (something you can do to exploit people who float in RR-ed pots). I am often calling for value, not raising.

Alternatively, I am also calling this flop with air alot and betting 1/2 pot on the turn when checked to. I may take the same line with a set/AA/etc. Checking the turn may be better w. a very strong hand but thats an argument for another debate.

I also call the flop/ with the intention of checking the turn with a hand w. good showdown value (ie. JJ/QQ).

[thatpfunk]

100% w/ dbite. i only like the rz as a bluff/AK.

[centgas]

Hmmm JJ isnt a bad argument if you dont want to see any overcards?