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#14
12-09-2006, 08:06 PM
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Re: who likes this value raise?
BB has no pair for sure and SB could have almost anything after the turn checks through and is just taking a shot. I like the raise very much and would expect to chop in the worst case.
Justin, really? 6 almost certainly clean outs and two bad opponents who will pay us off every time if we hit a pair. -DeathDonkey 
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#15
12-09-2006, 08:21 PM
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Re: who likes this value raise?
I don't like that value raise. Had the bb folded the river, I would have considered it though.
When you get called you lose a lot of the time. I think the river is time for a power call.
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#17
12-09-2006, 09:30 PM
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Re: who likes this value raise?
[ QUOTE ]
Justin, really? 6 almost certainly clean outs and two bad opponents who will pay us off every time if we hit a pair. [/ QUOTE ] 6 outs is the absolute best we can hope for. JT is dominated by so many hands that our opponents can have. I think 4 outs is even an optimistic estimate, and we're only getting 10:1 not closing the action. Pretty easy fold imo.
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#18
12-09-2006, 10:47 PM
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Re: who likes this value raise?
[ QUOTE ]
6 outs is the absolute best we can hope for. JT is dominated by so many hands that our opponents can have. I think 4 outs is even an optimistic estimate, and we're only getting 10:1 not closing the action. [/ QUOTE ] I like this analysis although a lot would depend on what the BB considered resonable to three bet against you and the SBs track record of aggression. I wouldn't go so far as to call it an "easy" fold but there a plenty of scenarios in which folding is reasonable. (In rereading this, noticed that: Mike I will call/fold/raise). As you played it, I wouldn't raise the river and agree with CDC's comments. If you think you have that much of an edge over the other two, I'd stay away from the more debateable plays.
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#19
12-09-2006, 11:08 PM
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Re: who likes this value raise?
I fold the flop/huh?/I hate it/not me all pretty effectively capture my feelings here. I think that the flop call is somewhat close, I hate the river raise, how can someone possibly bet/call after this action with something worse than a J?
I see a ton of weird [censored] every time I play limit holdem online, so while it wouldn't amaze me if you won this pot (or even wound up with 2 overcalls and won) I really do not like this play. The entire way this hand has played out looks to me like he was either going for a turn c/r or he got there on the river, and if he got there on the river he got there harder than you did.
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#20
12-09-2006, 11:19 PM
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Re: who likes this value raise?
[ QUOTE ]
I like this analysis although a lot would depend on what the BB considered resonable to three bet against you and the SBs track record of aggression. [/ QUOTE ] Even a very wide range from the BB has JT in trouble on this flop. You're against two opponents, you have a [censored] hand with very little chance of improving, and even if you do improve there's still three overcards to your pair.
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