Flush draw facing heavy action on flop and turn

Mog · #1 02-07-2006, 01:14 AM

Hey all- my first attempt at one of these... here goes!

Reads:
UTG+1 is a passive player preflop, not extraordinarily loose or tight. Postflop he is still passive and calls down some hands he should not.
MP1 is tight preflop also somewhat passive. Postflop he is very predictable. If he has a great hand, he'll bet it, but with action back at him he'll slow down greatly. He doesn't make a lot of bad calls postflop.
CO just sat down at the table- no prior reads.
Button has a note that says loose preflop. I'm not nearly as familiar with him as the first two players.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

At this point I expect that both UTG+1 and MP1 have good hands, possibly a high pocket pair.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, CO 3-bets, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

After the raise and cold call, I'm leaning towards both UTG+1 and MP1 both having an overpair. I'm not sure what to think about the 3-bet by the CO. With 18SB in the pot, I'm obviously not folding. Is the raise better than the call here?

Turn: (11.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

The turn isn't a bad card as it gives me a gutshot straight draw as well, so I bet out again. Is the check better here? When UTG+1 raises, I'm positive he has an overpair. I'm guessing CO has a set, two pair, or possibly another flush draw. Again, I call the 3bet given the amount of money in the pot.

Any comments on my flop/turn play?

maniacut · #2 02-07-2006, 01:20 AM

ok i'll take a shot at it... preflop, goot.
flop, goot. no reason to raise here with this heavy action, you might be up against redraws if you make your flush with a Q, K or A ont he turn.
turn, i don't like betting out here, you are still behind and given the action on the flop it's possible you could see the river for just one more BB if UTG+1 checks to CO...

Muckit · #3 02-07-2006, 01:33 AM

*grunch*
I’d play the flop the same and just call the 3-bet. I don’t know if leading the turn is correct…I’d tend to check and call.

Darth Poker · #4 02-07-2006, 02:42 AM

preflop and flop are good. from your reads, utg+1 raising is somewhat odd, he probably has a hand and I interpret the flop 3-bet as high PP or set. check/call turn.

this is only my 2nd hand analyzed/posted, so I'm probably somewhat - very wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edit: looking at this again, I'm not so sure how much I like being out of position to two very aggro dudes here...I'm leaning towards checking turn and folding to bet/raise

bottomset · #5 02-07-2006, 02:48 AM

why on earth did you lead the flop into the PFR, to clear the field out?? check and either call or raise depending on the action

turn bet makes no sense either

Muckit · #6 02-07-2006, 02:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why on earth did you lead the flop into the PFR, to clear the field out?? check and either call or raise depending on the action

turn bet makes no sense either

[/ QUOTE ]

I still have trouble understanding when to lead with flush draws. Why is the flop bet bad here? Is it because we don’t have any other draws other than a J high flush?

vodkamattvt · #7 02-07-2006, 02:58 AM

Preflop: ok

Flop: I would rather go for a checkraise here.

Turn: Your flush didnt come in, I would check and call. Im not sure any of our outs are even clean anymore (bigger flush, big pocket pair) all you have might be the gutshot ... but the pot is huge so Im not sure Im laying down here.

Darth Poker · #8 02-07-2006, 03:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Im not sure any of our outs are even clean anymore (bigger flush, big pocket pair) all you have might be the gutshot ... but the pot is huge so Im not sure Im laying down here.

[/ QUOTE ]

with the possibility of 0 clean outs, why does the size of the pot matter? at this point in the hand, we have nothing but draws that may very well be 2nd best.

vodkamattvt · #9 02-07-2006, 03:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
with the possibility of 0 clean outs, why does the size of the pot matter? at this point in the hand, we have nothing but draws that may very well be 2nd best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because knowing and not being sure are very different. You are continuing with the hand because you have odds to continue and you may win this huge pot. However, capping every street with dirty outs is spewage. He doesnt have any reads either, both players like their hand ..

Hume · #10 02-07-2006, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im not sure any of our outs are even clean anymore (bigger flush, big pocket pair) all you have might be the gutshot ... but the pot is huge so Im not sure Im laying down here.

[/ QUOTE ]

with the possibility of 0 clean outs, why does the size of the pot matter? at this point in the hand, we have nothing but draws that may very well be 2nd best.

[/ QUOTE ]

How big do you think the possibility is that we have 0 outs if the turn is bet and raised?