Player folds cards and grabs them back? Ruling?

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
If the cards do NOT hit the muck, they are still I live.

There are SOME specific cases where if the cards do hit the muck inadvertently but can be identified, they *may* be retrieved and held as live, at some casinos, depending.

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I disagree.

This is one of those cases where he can't have the cards back. He has tossed his cards in and given up claim on the pot AND someone else has chirped in violating the one player to a hand policy. He can't have half the pot. This has been discussed here recently.

If the guy had quickly caught this himself, yeah, typically he'd get half. Though there have to be time limits on this, too.... story time...

A couple weeks ago there were four clubs on the board and a $60 pot and I had two pair that I couldn't bet anymore. I check the river and announce two pair and turn it over. My opponent sighs and tosses his cards forward face down. Dealer just stares at him with a "are you sure?" look (but doesn't say anything). After 3 seconds, dealer says "okay" but leaves the cards out there as he gathers the pot and pushes it to me. Just as the dealer let's go of the pot the player says "HEY!" I then say "take his cards." I get a blank stare. "*MUCK* *HIS* *CARDS*" "oh... yeah" and before the dealer can reach 'em the player reaches out and turns over an ace of clubs.

Dealer has a "WTF have I just done" look. Now, calling the floor is the obvious solution here, but it's been a really fun and friendly table, and this guy is a total n00b and an incredible donator and has misread his hand before turning over cards saying "king high" when he had a straight. So I don't want the tourist going home telling tales of the pot a nasty local stole from him on a technicality, and I let the dealer off the hook and say "it's ok...push him the pot". Dealer says "I can call the floor" and a player at the table says "he'd already mucked" and I reiterate "no...just let him have it". My opponent then makes me wish I'd called the floor when he mouthes off at me with "I didn't muck--I was trying to put my cards out there face up and they flipped over!" What a turkey...I give him a pot I coulda claimed and he's gonna then LIE about it?

As I'm leaving a couple hours later I ask two floor people in the room if the statute of limitations had expired on that one. Both agree they would have let me keep it, claiming the pushing of the pot sealed it. They also ask "which of my dealers did that"...no need to tattle since just about every dealer does something like that once in a while, and this particular dealer knew he'd done wrong.

[the_doantster]

I had an experience a little like this one

On the turn the board was lovely
7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I had A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and was check calling the player to my immediate left the whole time, who happend to have a pocket pair (9's)... BB was also in the hand who seemed like he was on some sort of draw

anyways river comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

for a board of
7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked all around and the player betting with the 9's says "I can't beat the ace" and checks. I flip my hand over and both players throw their cards in, face down towards the muck...the dealer begins to pick them up and put them in the muck.

At this time the player with the 9's says "I want to see that hand" referring to the BB's hand, the dealer flips it up and it's K3 off suit for a wheel....LOL

All hell breaks loose, as another player who wasn't in the hand says "hey you have a straight"..I guess the BB was soo into catching a 6 on the river, that he forget about the wheel.

The dude starts complaining now, about how the pot is his, and denying ever throwing his cards in. The dealer was like "no man, you threw the hand in, it's dead" ....I didn't say anything, I was pretty much quiet the whole time because the dealer was doing all the argueing for me. Eventually floorman was called over and they ended up checking the camera to see if the cards were dead.

The floor returns in 5 minutes and says that his hand was dead because he threw them face down towards the muck and the pot was mine (thank god)...BUT he said that had I been the one to ask to see the hand, and it turned out that it was the winning hand, the ruling would have been in favor of the other player.

[xxx]

There is a story in this month's Bluff where Jennifer Tilly describes how the railbirds stopped her from mucking on a split pot. She survived until deep in the money. I don't remember how far her cards got until she retrieved them.

[AlienBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the cards do NOT hit the muck, they are still I live.

There are SOME specific cases where if the cards do hit the muck inadvertently but can be identified, they *may* be retrieved and held as live, at some casinos, depending.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

This is one of those cases where he can't have the cards back. He has tossed his cards in and given up claim on the pot AND someone else has chirped in violating the one player to a hand policy. He can't have half the pot. This has been discussed here recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point Bav, one I overlooked - and does swing this I think.


AB

[ExT]

In our cardroom, it's forward motion all day so long as they weren't tabled....if a player turns them up, then it's a gray area as to whether he mucked em, or was just tabling them. But if the cards move out of the players hands toward the dealer of the players own accord: Forward motion, dead hand. Depends on what that place has in it's policy on "folding" or forward motion.

Be damned if he woulda got that pot if I was dealing [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[canvasbck]

[ QUOTE ]


At this time the player with the 9's says "I want to see that hand" referring to the BB's hand, the dealer flips it up and it's K3 off suit for a wheel....

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The procedure in most places when a player askes to see a mucked hand at showdown is for the dealer to hold the mucked hand face down and tap the muck pile with the two mucked cards before flipping the hand. This removes any doubt about weather or not the hand is dead.