Razz: the effect of paired cards on 3rd street

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]

Just call

3. You like folding on 4th when you hit bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you should fold 4th heads up after the villain 3-bets here, he is pricing you into a call even if you catch bad (unless he catches the absolutely perfect 4 or 5, I am not positive about this however, I need to check)

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[bugstud]

to induce him to continue sticking in lots of bets drawing bad?

[2faded]

ok, so hero has 2-4-7 or 2-5-7 and villain has xxa? i would raise to see how strong his hand really is or if villian was just raising cuase he had an ace showing. Depending on how good the player is, there is some good info that i could get if he capped or called. Also, what about raising to take control of the hand and make him catch good? If he catches good you act last and if he doesnt you continue to put pressure on him to make a good hand.
I'm new to razz...any of this make sense?

[Bremen]

[ QUOTE ]
A slight favorite on 3rd. Although, depending on your opponent, a call may be best as a later extra bet gained via 3rd street deception will be worth more than a slight pot-equity favorite in this small pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're not really gaining any deception by smooth calling the raise. In razz betting decisions are strongly influenced by what cards come on later streets. eg if hero catches a deuce and villain catches a king the villain isn't making any aggressive action regardless of what happened on 3rd. Also remember we have the 7 showing so villain will assume we're drawing to the 7 regardless (although in cases of 7 vs 7 we gain from deception, but many opponents would not know what the reraise means anyway)

[keebler61]

That's 3 dead cards for you, although it is a scarecard. Assuming this player isn't too tricky (IE I haven't noticed him playing a lot of pots representing a hand and getting caught), I procede cautiously. No need to fall in love with my 7 low. I put in 2 or 3 bets at the most.

[Bremen]

[ QUOTE ]
Now for the next theoretical question because today is my day to act like Alex Trebeck: If we don't know the villain's down cards, should the hero still assume he or she is the favorite, or at worst a coinflip?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero is most definitely a favorite against villains range. I think we're only losing equity to A45 (maybe A47/A57, not sure). Also remember we were in a steal position so villain could (should) be reraising with worse hands than a 7 low, in which case we are really missing value if we just call.

[burthoovis]

[ QUOTE ]
Now for the next theoretical question because today is my day to act like Alex Trebeck: If we don't know the villain's down cards, should the hero still assume he or she is the favorite, or at worst a coinflip?

TT

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to answer a question with a question, but does it matter ? If you're, at worst, a coin flip, and possibly a favorite, why would you not raise ?

[burthoovis]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just call

3. You like folding on 4th when you hit bad.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I don't think you should fold 4th heads up after the villain 3-bets here, he is pricing you into a call even if you catch bad (unless he catches the absolutely perfect 4 or 5, I am not positive about this however, I need to check)

TT

[/ QUOTE ]

unless my math is wrong, a 3 bet on third would leave you with showdown pot odds of 31% to call on 4th.

What if he goes 8 or below ( non pairing) on 4 and you hit a face, you're right on the bubble. And thats assuming he didn't start with any cards matching the board.