I shouldn't be here, so i don't know my line...

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
kitaristi0 or Antinome or anyone,

So are we saying call getting 2:1 on a 4:1 draw because of implied odds?

Sorry if this question is simple, but I really don't have a full understanding of implied odds yet.

[/ QUOTE ]
He is getting 3.2:1.6 = 2:1 although he would need 6.4:1.6 = 4:1 to call and be break even. So he needs to consider if he can make more than $3.2 on future betting rounds if he hits on the turn. This is mostly a judgement call. Consider how much your opponent has invested already, what his stack looks like (is he so short, that he doesn't even have the $3.2 anymore?) and what are the chances that you are beat even when you hit.

Sometimes, people ask: it's 2:1 to the river. Isn't a call on the flop break even? That is only true if you get a free card on the turn or your opponent is all-in. Otherwise you need to factor in a turn bet by your opponent.

Example:
It's on the flop and the same bets. So the pot is 3.2. If you call, the pot is 4.8.

a) So when your opponent bets half the pot on the turn (2.4), you'll have to call 1.6 (Flop) + 2.4 (Turn) = 4 to win 1.6 (Pot) + 1.6 (Flopbet) + 2.4 (Turnbet) = 5.6 which are 1.4:1 odds. So you'll still have to make up 3.36 on the river to break even.

b) If he bets 2/3 of the pot on the turn (3.2) you will have 6.4:4.8 = 1,3:1 so you'll have to make up more on the last round of betting.

As you can see a lot of these odds depend on how villain acts on the turn. Therefore is is advisable to consider only the odds to the next card and reevaluate on every street, looking at the stack sizes, the pot sizes etc.

I hope the math is right.

[Antinome]

NL without implied odds is like sex with no touching. It doesn't work well and it isn't much fun.

Edit- A fold is fine too, but given the whole story about not getting action, I think it is worth the risk. This could be the hand that breaks the table wide open.

[Ra_]

My line = change tables

If the table is seriously that tight an NL10, just find one that isn't. But seriously, they probably just haven't had anything suited when you raised before. No need for this move.

[HNIC]

Genz,

Thanks for the great insite on implied odds. WOW just when I think I'm starting to catch on to this crap you guys send me to the next level...

back to the drawing board

[VorShot]

I'm glad my orignal post helped spawn a conversation that is helping others.

Implied odds i feel is normally very over used, and i don't normally use, but somehow i felt a call here because of them seemed right.

A flush though normally has very low implied odds though because it's so easy to detect, and what so many people at this level draw to more often then not.

Though i was pretty sure about SB's range here...so i thought that might change given the strength of their hand.

Anyways, thanks.

[Antinome]

results?

[VorShot]

Call.
8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets pot, VorShot folds.