Capped before it reaches me.

[Burning_K]

Fadook:
I see what you're saying, though at this level the money really doesn't concern me - playing properly is the priority and getting experience playing hands and applying strategy correctly. Just playing lots of hands in the correct manner against not too tricky competition.
I usually play .25/.50 and usually the tables are a lot better than this .05/.10 one. I was just suprised at how aggro it was. Not crazy maniac aggro either.
I would have thought playing against tougher players for no financial risk would be a good thing normally, though like Bozlax said I'm sure he's right that a lot of it is misplaced aggression from not very good players and I'd be better off finding less retarded tables.

Bozlax:
If all the tables at your limit were suddenly filled with these types of players (and it was the same at every poker site in the world) how would you deal with it? Just outplay them from experience?

[Xhad]

Grunch: Fold.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=3&vc=1

[Xhad]

FWIW Burning K I agree with you that table selection isn't necessary if you're just cutting your teeth; I've never table selected below $2/$4.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch: Fold.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=3&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

that thread in general convinces me even more that this is a preflop call.

[Burning_K]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch: Fold.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=3&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

I also ran some ranges through pokerstove like in that thread and came up with the same sort of result i.e. poor equity.

Hand 1: 22.9629 % 20.86% 02.10% { TT+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Hand 2: 30.9887 % 27.23% 03.76% { JJ+, AQs+, AKo }
Hand 3: 30.9887 % 27.23% 03.76% { JJ+, AQs+, AKo }
Hand 4: 15.0596 % 08.71% 06.35% { AhKc }

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch: Fold.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=3&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

that thread in general convinces me even more that this is a preflop call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch: Fold.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=3&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

that thread in general convinces me even more that this is a preflop call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok. bear in mind that i could be wrong.

first. stove equity numbers are almost completely meaningless in this case. in no way are we blindly going to the river.

second. ok so the first villain is 15/12/3.5. i'm not worried at all about his open raise.

the next 2 guys are slightly worrisome, however the 10/2/2 (100) guy could easily have been totally card dead and have a much higher pfr normally. this is just 100 hands.

the third guy will easily fold UI based on the read so i'd look at his cap as him putting in 4sb as a potential gift to balance out the times that the rock is actually a rock.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Bozlax:
If all the tables at your limit were suddenly filled with these types of players (and it was the same at every poker site in the world) how would you deal with it? Just outplay them from experience?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's the point. All the .05/.10 tables AREN'T full of nits (by the way, that's what we're talking about, here...18/10/2.5 over 2k hands is a TAG, 12/2/1.3 over 200 hands is a nit). When you get up to playing 3/6 or 5/10, you might start running into more tables like this, but you'll also be better equipped to deal with them.

So, to answer your actual question, yes, I'd outplay them from experience.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
first. stove equity numbers are almost completely meaningless in this case. in no way are we blindly going to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right that stove doesn't tell the whole story. The problem is, with AKo we'd rather be all-in than have to decide what to do on a JT3 flop in a 20SB pot that might erupt in a raising war. I explained this in that thread, but the cliffs notes version is that AKo is going to make more FTOP mistakes postflop than a "pure" drawing hand like 87s and 22, and is furthermore going for an obvious hand that is easy to outdraw. So if 22 has better equity preflop and plays better postflop and 22 is a pretty obvious fold, why are we calling AK?

[ QUOTE ]
second. ok so the first villain is 15/12/3.5. i'm not worried at all about his open raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's tighter than I am, except the postflop aggression which is hard to interpret (could mean he overplays hands, could mean he's a raise-or-fold nit). More importantly, just because we don't think any individual unknown pfr is a favorite to have AA/KK/AK doesn't mean that three unknown PFRs collectively aren't a favorite to have AA/KK/AK, or at least have them often enough to make this pot not worth playing.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first. stove equity numbers are almost completely meaningless in this case. in no way are we blindly going to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right that stove doesn't tell the whole story. The problem is, with AKo we'd rather be all-in than have to decide what to do on a JT3 flop in a 20SB pot that might erupt in a raising war. I explained this in that thread, but the cliffs notes version is that AKo is going to make more FTOP mistakes postflop than a "pure" drawing hand like 87s and 22, and is furthermore going for an obvious hand that is easy to outdraw. So if 22 has better equity preflop and plays better postflop and 22 is a pretty obvious fold, why are we calling AK?

[ QUOTE ]
second. ok so the first villain is 15/12/3.5. i'm not worried at all about his open raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's tighter than I am, except the postflop aggression which is hard to interpret (could mean he overplays hands, could mean he's a raise-or-fold nit). More importantly, just because we don't think any individual unknown pfr is a favorite to have AA/KK/AK doesn't mean that three unknown PFRs collectively aren't a favorite to have AA/KK/AK, or at least have them often enough to make this pot not worth playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

true. but i think we make out ok postflop because we have the button and all the pf aggressors are acting first. ok, so the most likely action is checking to the capper who bets and we can dump or raise or worry about checkraises...

vpip 15 isn't really relevant, the pfr of 12 doesn't narrow his range too much. what does that work out too?

yes, i agree that the collective likelyhood of AA/KK being out is high, but given the postflop reads i think we can figure it out then. to reiterate, i think folding could be correct, i wouldn't think it's a big mistake to fold if its a mistake at all. if i wasn't confident for any reason, i'd probably fold pf.