Trying out 3/6 on Stars

[milesdyson]

yeah i think i'd check call the turn. how often does this get checked around? not often. why? because we don't have the best hand very often after the flop action. if we bet do we have to call a raise? yes.

[lstephen666]

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I will clarify by saying that I'm not justifying a check based on a free card being less worse than normal, that's more of a bonus feature. I do think suggesting a bet here based solely on not giving a free card is incorrect (not that anyone has said that).

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No, I am absolutely saying that. You should bet because you are most likely ahead and you want players with OCs/pair of 2s either to fold and not draw out on you or call incorrectly. You would love to fold out a GS too.


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Well, they'd be getting 7.8:1 on a call, so they'd need 5 outs or less to be calling incorrectly. So, we can't make OCs incorrectly call.

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I think with four people in the chance we are ahead is low

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I think you are wrong and we likely have the best hand here. You are betting for value here.

If the other players had say an openender, OCs and a gutshot with an OC, they have a total of 21 outs. This is if none of them need the same cards as outs. You are still a favourite against all three *even if they call*.

If someone has a 6 or 5, well, they've played that a bit oddly. It's quite unlikely in any case, because there aren't that many hands that have those cards in that the average player will play.


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In an unraised pot I don't think we can be sure of this. I think hands like 67s or A6s could very well be played here. Also two people called two cold on the flop. A slow played set could also be possible.

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and with not much of a draw, that I don't think there is enough equity to bet here.

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Dude, the draw is cream on the cake! If a 3 comes on the river, you are laughing all the way to the bank.

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(Warning: might be dodgy maths here)

Lets look at the draw. We have 6 outs. The gutshot and the other two 4s. So we have a 13% chance of hitting that. We need an equity of 25% to bet here, if all others are going to call. I don't think there's any fold equity so we'd need to be confident our hand is best 12% of the time. If we think we'll only take 3 to the river, we need 33% equity, so we need to be confident we're good 1 in 5.

You seem to be sure we're ahead that often, so can justify a bet. I'm not sure we're ahead that much, so I favour a check.

I guess it comes down to a read there.

[drzen]

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I like the c/r on the flop. I'm guessing the intent was to get rid of overcards?

I don't like the turn bet once you get called and there's still four in. I'm not convinced there's an equity edge that's worth pushing. Giving a free card is probably bad here, but I don't think it's terrible, as I don't see any decent draws folding here.

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Why would you want to give them a free card though? You don't just bet to make people fold.

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The problem is that the hero is probably the one drawing here...

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No, I absolutely do not think so. You have no reason to think you are here.

[drzen]

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yeah i think i'd check call the turn. how often does this get checked around? not often. why? because we don't have the best hand very often after the flop action.

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The flop action is everyone checks, the button bets, we raise and then everyone calls. I don't see anything in that to suggest we are often behind. I wouldn't often fire into three players with a little pair less than top pair, but I think I'm winning enough here to go for it.

[Niediam]

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yeah i think i'd check call the turn. how often does this get checked around? not often. why? because we don't have the best hand very often after the flop action.

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You honestly think that somebody bet and two others coldcalled and none of them have a made hand? Especially considering it's Stars 3/6...

The flop action is everyone checks, the button bets, we raise and then everyone calls. I don't see anything in that to suggest we are often behind. I wouldn't often fire into three players with a little pair less than top pair, but I think I'm winning enough here to go for it.

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[NIX]

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yeah i think i'd check call the turn. how often does this get checked around? not often. why? because we don't have the best hand very often after the flop action. if we bet do we have to call a raise? yes.

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What are you suggesting that we are behind here? The two cold callers had a chance to bet and checked. They may have a 5, but wouldn't they have bet a small overpair or a 6 the first time around? Wouldn't some sort of straight/flush/overcard draws be more likely? Granted the button may be ahead, but is it the two cold callers that you think we're behind or the button?

[Befolder]

After reading all these responses I realize I should have put my reasoning behind my decisions while posting, but I was still playing and wanted to remember to post this before forgetting because it was a tough hand for me.

On the flop, I was ready to drop this with any significant action and at least peel one if I had odds to go after my gutshot.

As it turned out, the last player bet, I called bullspit and raised him. I figured anyone who held an overpair or top pair would have bet it. The players that called my raise were in early position, which I thought was good and bad. On table with better players, which I've been used to lately, I'd normally put them on small pairs or large suited cards if they're limping in there.

I discounted the pairs again, because they didn't bet their overpair on the flop if they had one. That made me believe that they held overcards so I actually felt there was a good chance I had the best hand at that point.

The turn five was good and bad. I thought someone could have hung around with a 5, but not the early position players. It's just less likely that they limped in with something that weak. They either had a full house or nothing. The chance that I was good added to a bit of fold equity on some players pushed me to bet again.

I didn't want to show weakness and felt I needed to get overcards to fold pretty badly. I felt it was my best chance to win the pot. Checking would have really given away my hand I think.

Whoever commented about knowing we would get called by overs is out of his mind. You don't know you're getting called.

I checked the river because that was as far as I was betting my weak hand and getting called twice. I thought it was dead in the water at that point.

Turns out my 4s were good and the villains had limped in with some really ugly cards. Later in that session one of the same guys limped UTG w/ 59s. I haven't seen that poor a play since I started at .25/.50 years ago. Whoopeee!

I love Stars so far.

[lstephen666]

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Whoever commented about knowing we would get called by overs is out of his mind. You don't know you're getting called.


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Was this me? I said something close to this, which was that we can't make OCs incorrectly call on the turn. If they call they are getting the right odds (but I don't think they can know that).

After looking at it more I think betting/checking the turn is close, so I think both can be correct based on your reads. As you thought there was a good chance you're ahead, I think a bet is good.

NH

[Befolder]

I don't know who it was Stephen. I just remember reading something to the tune of "overcards aren't folding if we bet."

My point was, bad players do all sorts of things that we don't expect them to, or we ourselves wouldn't do.