($5.5) messed up QQ early in back to back games

falser · #1 12-06-2006, 01:31 AM

I stack an awful lot of people at these stakes with overpairs on dull flops like these. Am I getting into a bad habit? I know I'm weak with the preflop calls and will correct this. My lesson of past is with good pairs this early I dare not be aggressive until I see the flop (incorrect?). In both situations I was really expecting to see flush draws or Ax so they caught me completely off guard. Suggestions please...

Game 1:
PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
SB (t1500)
BB (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 raises to t80, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t80, Hero calls t80, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls t60, UTG+1 calls t60

Flop: (t430) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets t100, CO folds, Hero raises to t200, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t400, Hero raises to t1420 (All-in), MP1 calls t1020 (All-in)

Turn: (t3570) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t3570) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Results in gray below:
MP1 has Th, Tc (three of a kind, Tens)
Hero has Qc, Qs (a pair of Queens)

Game 2:

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1145)
UTG+1 (t2560)
MP1 (t1610)
Hero (t1495)
Button (t4600)
SB (t1060)
BB (t1030)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t90, Hero calls t90, Button calls t90, SB folds, BB folds

Flop: (t315) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t210, Button raises to t420, MP1 folds, Hero raises to t1405 (All-in), Button calls t985

Turn: (t3335) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t3335) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Results in gray below:
Hero has Qh, Qc (a pair of Queens)
Button has 9s, 8s (two pair, Nines and Eights)

jafeather · #2 12-06-2006, 01:37 AM

Reraise both hands PF.

ManChild · #3 12-06-2006, 01:44 AM

reraise to ~300+ in both hands preflop
dont minraise the flop in hand 1 thats pointless, put in a real raise
you want to play big pots with big pairs, not wait to see flops

falser · #4 12-06-2006, 01:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Reraise both hands PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that much is clear. But how much? I'm out of position and it was the first hand of game 1, and still early in game 2 - this was probably the only reason I didn't reraise in either case.

falser · #5 12-06-2006, 01:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
reraise to ~300+ in both hands preflop
dont minraise the flop in hand 1 thats pointless, put in a real raise
you want to play big pots with big pairs, not wait to see flops

[/ QUOTE ]

This might have saved me in Game 2. But in Game 1, the flop play would have been the same, no?

ManChild · #6 12-06-2006, 01:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reraise to ~300+ in both hands preflop
dont minraise the flop in hand 1 thats pointless, put in a real raise
you want to play big pots with big pairs, not wait to see flops

[/ QUOTE ]

This might have saved me in Game 2. But in Game 1, the flop play would have been the same, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

what ended up happening is not the point, you need to reraise with QQ+ here PF

falser · #7 12-06-2006, 01:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what ended up happening is not the point, you need to reraise with QQ+ here PF

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but what I'm getting at is regardless if I had raised either PF, is there any way you fold these flops? In game 1 I'm sure he would call any reasonable raise, and now we'd have a 700-ish pot - then what?

taipan168 · #8 12-06-2006, 02:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what I'm getting at is regardless if I had raised either PF, is there any way you fold these flops? In game 1 I'm sure he would call any reasonable raise, and now we'd have a 700-ish pot - then what?

[/ QUOTE ]
There is no way I am folding QQ to an all unders flop to almost any action at a $5.50.

jafeather · #9 12-06-2006, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reraise both hands PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that much is clear. But how much? I'm out of position and it was the first hand of game 1, and still early in game 2 - this was probably the only reason I didn't reraise in either case.

[/ QUOTE ]

250-300 in the first hand. 300-400 in the second.

Your being out of position is exactly why you want to RR the first hand.

Early/Middle/Late tourney shouldn't change your PF play (RR vs. call) with QQ. QQ is a premium hand and you need to raise to protect it and to see that villian(s) are making an EV mistake seeing the flop with you. In the 5.50s a lot of Aces and many Kings are making this initial raise, and you don't want to let them catch a flop on you cheap.

falser · #10 12-10-2006, 03:47 AM

This was getting comical. I can't wait until I can move up.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com
Hero (t1600)
UTG+1 (t2725)
MP1 (t1370)
CO (t1295)
Button (t2110)
SB (t1390)
BB (t3010)
Preflop: Hero is in UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to t150, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t100
Flop: (t325) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t200, BB raises to t600, Hero raises to t1450 (All-in), BB calls t850
Turn: (t3425) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
River: (t3425) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Results in gray below:
BB has 2h, 7h (two pair, Sevens and Deuces)
Hero has Qh, Qd (a pair of Queens)

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com
UTG (t535)
UTG+1 (t1810)
MP1 (t3150)
CO (t1450)
Button (t3730)
SB (t1695)
Hero (t1130)
Preflop: Hero is in BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG raises to t100, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls t75, Hero raises to t1130 (All-in), UTG calls t435 (All-in), SB calls t1030
Flop: (t2845) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Turn: (t2845) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
River: (t2845) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Results in gray below:
SB has 8c, Qc (high card King)
Hero has Qs, Qh (a pair of Queens)
UTG has Qd, Ad (a flush, Ace high)

And then finally it works for a change...

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com
UTG (t3875)
UTG+1 (t1750)
MP1 (t2915)
CO (t1070)
Hero (t1640)
SB (t1930)
BB (t320)
Preflop: Hero is in Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO raises to t400, Hero raises to t1640 (All-in), SB folds, BB calls t220 (All-in), CO calls t670 (All-in)
Flop: (t3080) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Turn: (t3080) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
River: (t3080) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Results in gray below:
CO has As, 9s (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
Hero has Qd, Qs (a full house, Queens full of Sevens)
BB has Js, 9c (two pair, Nines and Sevens)