Artichoke Joe's 15-30 : BS in the SB

[Benn Eubank]

AJ's 15-30, loose/passive. 9-handed. BB (villain) is a lady that I have no read on other than from her posture and dress I would lean towards loose/weak (perhaps unfairly). She is wearing shades which I typically tag as "I bluff a bit, so I wear shades so you can't tell when I do that" (thoughts?).

Three limpers to me in the SB. I complete for 1 chip with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. BB checks.

Flop (5sb's) : 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, BB calls, everyone else folds.

Turn (3.5bb's) : 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, BB raises. I call.

River : J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I check, she bets, I call.

She turns over Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the flush and I feel dumb.

Thoughts? I feel a bit lost in these situations. Is this bad calling station play or okay to look someone up? Should I have 3-bet the turn to see where I was and call the 4-bet as I'm then getting odds to hit my outs? The problem I see with that line in this game is that few non-asian/non-young players will 4-bet you even with the flush (even with the nut flush sometimes), so I'd argue that it may not provide all that much addtl info for the extra chips put into the pot. With a read, this all seems much easier, but is it okay to say "player-dependent" or is this just bad play?

Appreciate all comments and guidance,

Cheers, Benn.

[jfk]

I'd generally prefer check raising this flop rather than leading. It would not have changed the outcome here, but may protect you from overs in future pots.

As played, your call down is not unreasonable. A fold may be better and is justified as both a straight, flush, set, better two pair are all somewhat likely. Raising would be bad. If the villain was Norma, an older, wll dressed white lady with white hair, you're beat here 100% and have four outs at most to run her down. Against Jeannie you may be good here and should call.

[william288]

maybe c/c turn is a better alternative. we have outs to improve if behind. turn completes a lot of bb's range. She can be semibluff on turn but very rare. We should give her credit for a hand. you lead to 5-way pot on 762 flush draw possible hand from sb. the possibility for bb's semibluff/bluff raise turn is low.

[thirddan]

checking the turn is bad...you have a lot value against worse made hands tons of draws and giving a free card on this board sucks...

[honker]

I check the flop to see where I am. Bet the turn, call the river

[Mr. T]

Benn,

Don't post results in your original post.

Calling down isn't bad since she may have a worse two pair and, since she is unknown, you will have a better read on her which you can use in the future.

That being said, against the "ladys" I know and play with I could fold this turn no problem.

[Benn Eubank]

Thanks to all that took the time to respond. I appreciate the guidance.

In terms of posting/not posting the results in the original post, I've seen different opinions (people not wanting to have to check back to see what occurred etc.). Will likely switch for now, though, and see how it goes.

Cheers, Benn.

[benwood]

Flop:This hand is not strong enough to bet out into 4 players behind you,imo.I would check & then decide whether to raise,call,or fold depending on the action.

Turn:You have represented a stronger hand than you actually have,& she still thinks that she has you beat.There are not enough bets in the pot to justify calling with only 4 outs.I would fold.

[the_doantster]

In my experience most loose/weak players rarely ever semi-bluff, and a turn-raise represents furious brutal strength, so I'd proceed with caution..

Since you had a bet already in there on there turn, calling the raise hoping to fill up isn't all that bad.

I'd probably fold the river....

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]

That being said, against the "ladys" I know and play with I could fold this turn no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that against super predictable opponents we can safely say that the villain's range only includes flushes and maybe straights, so it seems that calling to c/r river if we fill up and folding if we miss is a better play.

However, I can't possibly know whether this opponent is super predictable, OP seems to think she isn't, so a call down probably isn't that bad. If she's an old geezer then I think folding UI is fine, if she's not yet fossilized then she may have some sneakiness in her.