Ftp stole my money

[ericjones]

What kind of evidence do you want me to provide if I don't have access to my hand historys or nothing. As I said before I sent them my Id and utility bill when I knew I engaged in credit card fraud? How does that make sense?

[Sniper]

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I sent them my Id and utility bill when I knew I engaged in credit card fraud

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Exactly...

[Sniper]

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Microbob, once a player has clearly been identified as a fraudster, how much time do you consider it appropriate for a poker site to spend communicating with them? and what information do you expect them to share with regard to the nature of the investigation?

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I'm really not sure.

But it seems they were never really communicating with him very much in the first place.

After a reasonable explanation is given and answering whatever reasonable Q's he may have (such as the names of the guys he is accused of colluding with perhaps??) I think it's okay for them to say, "we're done talking with you."

I'm not convinced that FT has really gotten to that point yet even though they apparently think they have.

The most info he has been able to get out of this was due to FTPDoug actually going to fraud-support to find out what was going on.
He deserves to actually get to talk to someone there without having to beg on 2+2.

Note that he gave them 2.5 mths to get on the ball and actually communicate with him before coming here and all they kept saying was, "please be patient. we're looking into it."

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Microbob, but you haven't really answered the questions... so I'll rephrase.. If you worked in FTP's Fraud dept, what would YOU tell eric (that hasn't already been stated in this thread)?

Take note of the FTP T&C and also note that fraud is a huge problem for online sites (based on Party's reported numbers... to the tune of likely $50 MILLION this year at PartyGaming alone... thats a pretty sizable chunk of $1 Billion in revenue, and should be considered Net of recoverable fraud caught), also any additional time spent dealing with eric after his status was confirmed will take away from your time investigating other fraud cases.

Bottom line... what would you (as FTP Fraud) communicate during your 2.5 month investigation, and what would you communicate now?

Lastly, would you opinion change if FTP deducted an allocation for the cost of fraud from your MGR?

[MicroBob]

Again, I can't really say.

However, I will try to answer some of your Q's.

first, I am entirely unconvinced that this was a 2.5 month investigation. It very much seemed that there was some significant foot-dragging in there.

FT should NEVER have taken so long between e-mails with him when they were locking up $14k of his.
They probably had enough at the time to determine that something was REALLY off. But he could still be innocent for all they know (they are still investigating afterall) so they owe him the courtesy of keeping him informed.


Your initial question is "if you worked in FT's fraud dept, what would YOU tell eric" and the fact is that they never really told him anything. He only knows stuff from this thread.


He has requested HH's.
They can at least tell him, "For reasons of protection of our investigating practices we are not going to give you access to the hand-histories" and can maybe answer a couple more of his Q's.


I understand that any additional time spent dealing with Eric takes away from investigating other stuff.
But they REALLY blew him off big-time. And there were other INNOCENT players that also had difficulty getting THEIR OWN MONEY and getting anybody to get in touch with them at all until FTPDoug stepped in and saved the day and helped them regain their status and/or recover their money.


So for their investigation...it should be quicker, the party should be informed of the accusations and should have SOME ability to defend themselves and/or explain their actions, and for communicating now I still think Eric has the right to see his own HH's which he would have had access too all along if he had just selected the correct setting the lobby.

The HH's are NOT super-top-secret stuff.

And I believe that he has the right to know the names of the players he is allegedly colluded with.


I believe that some sort of additional explanation for their actions is in order and I don't think that Eric is asking for anything too extreme here.


For a $14k decision, I think FTP can afford to take more than just 2 minutes of time to chat with him again and it won't kill their bottom-line.



For your last Q, I'm really not sure I understand.
If they deducted 5% of everyone's MGR to fund their fraud department? Is that what your asking?
I don't think that's appropriate.

They are still making 73% of the rake when I play there (although less than that usually because I will have bonus to clear also).
It's not like they are a financially-strapped company that is hurting for business.

They are making quite a bit of money on all the poker-games they are running. Yet they are cutting corners on their fraud-department so much that they can't even answer e-mails in a timely manner.


Also note that PokerStars seems to be able to respond to e-mails fairly quickly. And I don't recall hearing too many complaints of "Stars locked up my money for several weeks."

I don't think all the complaints are a giant conspiracy to make FT look bad.
And I don't think Stars is immune to the same kind of fraud attempts that FT is taking care of.


So Sniper - Do you really think FTP is entirely in the right here?
Everybody here knows that I think Eric was up to no good with whatever it was he did and I believe that FT probably made the right decision here?
But you don't think they owe him the simple courtesy of keeping him informed and/or supplying him with the HH's upon his request?

[Victor]

"
Can anybody tell me exactly what FTP, a multimillion dollar company, would stand to gain by stealing someone's money? Please, anybody."

edge, what if they arent multimilllion dolla compansy?

[Edge34]

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"
Can anybody tell me exactly what FTP, a multimillion dollar company, would stand to gain by stealing someone's money? Please, anybody."

edge, what if they arent multimilllion dolla compansy?

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I'm curious, do you doubt they are or are you asking me for a hypothetical?

If there weren't SO much revenue being poured into a site that is basically taking in a ton of Party "refugees", I would be with you in any doubt of their revenues.

However, what makes me wonder about this is not only the VERY shady nature of this particular complainant, but my (i think accurate) opinion that this type of company, with SO very much money to lose from their US base (and all players really) should enough complaints, would be smarter than that. Their communication process may suck, but I've never had a problem with anybody from support, and have never been involved in any type of delay for audit or investigation.

What does FTP stand to gain by being dishonest? Nothing.

What do they have to lose? Everything. Same for their pros who endorse the site publicly as well as those who play there, as I mentioned earlier.

OP still refuses to say anything to his defense other than "I SENT them my ID and utility bill". He demands much after being convicted, but refuses to actually defend himself. He claims that FTP is lying to him when FTPDoug has a very good track record here, and FT has retracted mistakes they have made before. The lack of retraction leads me to believe that FT doesn't believe they made a mistake in this case.

I also asked eric a few questions earlier in the thread he has failed to answer - specifically why he violated T&C at Full Tilt to make a second account when he reached deposit limits. Even an addicted gambler action junkie (someone who buys in for 600 and plays 10/20 and higher immediately, with no worry about risk of ruin) would know about other sites. At the very least, he is clearly guilty of this and fails to provide any defense beyond "THEY'RE LYING!"

If it looks like a rat, and smells like a rat...its probably ericjones....

[BurnleyMik]

The funny thing is that you're so willing to blindly defend someone who has repeatedly refused to do anything to prove his own innocence. So when you get off your knees and wipe Eric's remnants off your mouth, just think about that.

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Firstly I am not "blindly" defending him, because as yet eric is the only one to come forward with any kind of "hard" evidence...the emails..FTP have done nothing and secondly ur last comment..........pathetic...are you really old enough to play poker?

[BurnleyMik]

I am not sure why you all think he is guilty simply on the information that was passed to Doug. The fraud deartment may have made a genuine mistake in this case, but realise now that because of all the publicity it would look seriously unprofessional for them to come clean. If eric is guilty or not then at least they should show something to back up their claims. This argument is going round in circles without anybody really getting anywhere. All I can say is that Eric is STILL here trying to defend himself and FTP are not......? How can FTP just say that someone is guilty and not even prove their claims.....its madness. FTp may be absolutely spot-on in this case..I dont know, but they are certainly not willing to help in any way shape or form. They will know all about this thread because of Doug and yet they still do not want to come on and defend their reputation?? strikes me as a little weird.
My verdict on the whole incident is still in the air, but I am not prepared to condemn a man on something that was said by Doug (without evidence and recieved from an unknown source). Again Doug has probably tried to help as he has done in the pst, but he has not even been back to tell us if his source was reliable or help provide a single peice of evidence to clear this up...its just too coincidental for my liking. Also why cant an independant party review all the evidence and give their verdict? Someone who could be trusted obviously. What harm would this do? There HAS to be more evidence than simple chip dumping to base a claim to withold $14k. So FTP you are probably keeping your eye on this thread, so step up and pass the evidence to an independant party to review and if you do have proof then maybe they can see it, post their verdict on here and put this to bed.

[peregrine]

I don't understand the disappearance of Doug. If FTP doesn't want him commenting on this, why doesn't he just state that FTP is done with this and will no longer comment on this situation but that Doug is available as before to respond to other concerns. But it appears he is just totally gone.

[Edge34]

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I don't understand the disappearance of Doug. If FTP doesn't want him commenting on this, why doesn't he just state that FTP is done with this and will no longer comment on this situation but that Doug is available as before to respond to other concerns. But it appears he is just totally gone.

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1) He may be otherwise occupied. I highly doubt he spends all his time on 2p2.

2) Alternately, maybe he has a few days off work. Or maybe he's finding more stuff so next time he posts he doesn't get entirely ignored like he has by 90% of the idiots defending Eric in this case.

And Burnley, do you really think those emails are evidence of ANYTHING AT ALL? Wow. All they prove is that they kept him waiting maybe a little long, but isn't it also logical that if this guy has, say, an email detailing exactly what he's been "convicted" of, he would look like even more of an idiot than he does now by posting it?

So really, you're taking the word of a complete stranger to the poker community who has been convicted by a site of being connected with 7 or 8 fraudulent accounts. Simply because he says "No, I didn't".

What makes him any more credible than the poker site here? Think logically.