Ftp stole my money

[phish]

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Well, if FTPDoug comes back and tells us that all fund seizures are fully and independently reviewed by a separate party, then I'd be 95% satisfied. That's all he has to do. I'd take his word for it.

But absent such safeguard, all your money really is at the mercy of one potentially malicious employee or a simple mistake.

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This is the funniest post I've seen in a while. Talk about contradicting oneself.

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How's that? I've already said I trust FTPDoug's integrity. If he assures me that such safeguards are in place, then I would believe him and can sleep more soundly at night.

But if such safeguards are not in place, then you and I are at the mercy of any one of a number of unknown employees who may make mistakes or act in bad faith. And we'd have no avenue of appeal.

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Perhaps Doug works in the fraud department and is the one doing these investigations and the taking the funds. You don't know him. Thats the point of the post above. While I don't believe this is the case I was merely pointing out that what you say contradicts itself when in the same breath you talk about unknown or malicious employees.

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Doug has already said he does not work in the Fraud dept and in fact, understands little about the issues. He's just reporting back what he was told by the Fraud dept.

[PopFreak]

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Now that truly is a pathetic attitude to companies that hold your money. Would you allow banks to work in this way? All these guys including myself, are asking for is an improvement which will benefit all players everywhere. So if you are happy taking uneccessary risks with your money then that is your choice, but I would prefer the improvements.

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I think anytime you transfer money to another party by another party, you are taking a risk.

When you go all in with the "pocket rockets" you are taking a risk.

Are you for focking real. Your not dealing with a bank, Your dealing with an unregulated company, and until its regualted somehow, that's what it is.
Now with that said, Companyies like Full Tilt has to be un the up and up for a variety of reasons. If they are not honest then people will not paly there anymore, In Full Tilts case, and Stars to some degree, but mostly FTP, alot of oprofessional pokers players have signed on to FTP, so their reps to some degree are at stake. They are not going to be represented by a company that defrauds it's customers knowinglt.

Phish, seems to think this ordeal is the work of a lone bad employee. That's hogwash. This claim made by Eric certainly has gone up the chain of command at FTP and I would be willing to bet theya re reading this thread, so I'm sure that it's been investigated by more than 1 person.

Face it people Eric cheated and got caught. FTP has more than once admitted when they were wrong and I believe would do so here if they were. Problem is, is that they are not.

[BurnleyMik]

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As Doug says its how he understands it, which implies he was told the information rather than obtaining and reviewing it himself. But please doug comeback and prove me wrong if that is the case.

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How will he do this. If by some miracle he is able to prove it to your satifaction then I guess he would have to prove something else to someone else if they are not satified.

This is all so dumb.

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LeeLoo do you not think its time to stop takin pops at me and trying to make it personal? This is not about u or me mate.The people who are posting here are doing so because they would like answers one way or another, but FTP are no-where to be seen. At least eric is still around trying to push his case.

[BurnleyMik]

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Now that truly is a pathetic attitude to companies that hold your money. Would you allow banks to work in this way? All these guys including myself, are asking for is an improvement which will benefit all players everywhere. So if you are happy taking uneccessary risks with your money then that is your choice, but I would prefer the improvements.

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I think anytime you transfer money to another party by another party, you are taking a risk.

When you go all in with the "pocket rockets" you are taking a risk.

Are you for focking real. Your not dealing with a bank, Your dealing with an unregulated company, and until its regualted somehow, that's what it is.
Now with that said, Companyies like Full Tilt has to be un the up and up for a variety of reasons. If they are not honest then people will not paly there anymore, In Full Tilts case, and Stars to some degree, but mostly FTP, alot of oprofessional pokers players have signed on to FTP, so their reps to some degree are at stake. They are not going to be represented by a company that defrauds it's customers knowinglt.

Phish, seems to think this ordeal is the work of a lone bad employee. That's hogwash. This claim made by Eric certainly has gone up the chain of command at FTP and I would be willing to bet theya re reading this thread, so I'm sure that it's been investigated by more than 1 person.

Face it people Eric cheated and got caught. FTP has more than once admitted when they were wrong and I believe would do so here if they were. Problem is, is that they are not.

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Please just re-read what I wrote. I said Uneccessary risks. When you are playing the game you are taking risks by choice, but when you leave your money in an online poker account you do not expect you are taking risks.Correct?
We gotta stop picking each others posts apart because what is it acheiving?

[PopFreak]

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Please just re-read what I wrote. I said Uneccessary risks. When you are playing the game you are taking risks by choice, but when you leave your money in an online poker account you do not expect you are taking risks.Correct?
We gotta stop picking each others posts apart because what is it acheiving?

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If he had left his money in the account, we wouldnt be having this thread. it's because he withdrew a large sum that triggered an audit, which resulted in him being caught cheating. If he withdrew smaller amounts would it have not triggered the audit? I dont know, the question has been asked to Doug and he hasnt asnwered, and he should not. That is part of their security, and I'd rather they not let people know what exactly triggers and udit or not.

I've withdrew many times from TFP and have never not recieved my money in a timely manner. So yes, I am giving FTP the benefit of doubt.

You on the other hand seem to think they owe Eric or anyone else they accuse of cheating all the details. I disagree. If you've been pegged wrongly, and it has happened... Then (from at least the people that have come on here)it gets straitened out. Not always in the timeliness fashion but it does get fixed.

Also, it seems that the people that are wrongly accused by FTP, are always involved in money transfers and or multiple screen names from the same computer i.e roomates or something, so there is a reason they were singled out in the 1st place.

If you ask me, we should all be happy that FTP DOES take cheating seriously and attempts to provide a place to play that doesnt have cheats running around all over.

[BurnleyMik]

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[quote
Please just re-read what I wrote. I said Uneccessary risks. When you are playing the game you are taking risks by choice, but when you leave your money in an online poker account you do not expect you are taking risks.Correct?
We gotta stop picking each others posts apart because what is it acheiving?

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If he had left his money in the account, we wouldnt be having this thread. it's because he withdrew a large sum that triggered an audit, which resulted in him being caught cheating. If he withdrew smaller amounts would it have not triggered the audit? I dont know, the question has been asked to Doug and he hasnt asnwered, and he should not. That is part of their security, and I'd rather they not let people know what exactly triggers and udit or not.

I've withdrew many times from TFP and have never not recieved my money in a timely manner. So yes, I am giving FTP the benefit of doubt.

You on the other hand seem to think they owe Eric or anyone else they accuse of cheating all the details. I disagree. If you've been pegged wrongly, and it has happened... Then (from at least the people that have come on here)it gets straitened out. Not always in the timeliness fashion but it does get fixed.

Also, it seems that the people that are wrongly accused by FTP, are always involved in money transfers and or multiple screen names from the same computer i.e roomates or something, so there is a reason they were singled out in the 1st place.

If you ask me, we should all be happy that FTP DOES take cheating seriously and attempts to provide a place to play that doesnt have cheats running around all over.

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I think that if a person asks for evidence from FTP (or any other company) when they have been accused it is only fair they should get it. You cannot just go around saying to people "we think you are guilty and thats it" that just does not wash in any court of law. Now I agree its good that FTP take fraud very seriously and I applaud that, but their processes for determining who is guilty and who is not is seriously flawed. You need to be able to , at the very least, have the right to appeal to an independant company/governing body. You cannot just decide that you are judge, jury and executioner...it cant possbly work

[PopFreak]

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I think that if a person asks for evidence from FTP (or any other company) when they have been accused it is only fair they should get it. You cannot just go around saying to people "we think you are guilty and thats it" that just does not wash in any court of law. Now I agree its good that FTP take fraud very seriously and I applaud that, but their processes for determining who is guilty and who is not is seriously flawed. You need to be able to , at the very least, have the right to appeal to an independant company/governing body. You cannot just decide that you are judge, jury and executioner...it cant possbly work

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I think it already works. FTP policy on how they handle cheaters hasnt changed, and they keep growing and growing. So your annalisys just doesnt hold up. And besides the guy(eric) used 2 accounts, that in and of it self is cause for FTP to ban him.

Like I already said, FTP has already proven themselfs to admit when they are wrong. When they are not, they are under no obligation to disclose anything. Why is that soi hard for you to understand?

Your insistant tone in this makes me wonder who you are shilling for. If you or anyone else dont like FTP's rules or policies, then dont play there, makes no differense to me. It seems to me that if you dont engage in any suspicious activity then your fine.

If you share computers with other people or makes lots of transfers to people you dont know, well, then your an idiot if nothing else.

Edit to add:
They didnt tell him they think he is guilty, they told him he was guilty and they have the evidence. I dont feel they owe him the privelidge of seeing their evidence. he tried to cheat them. I wouldnt give him squat.

[LeeLoo]

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[quote
Please just re-read what I wrote. I said Uneccessary risks. When you are playing the game you are taking risks by choice, but when you leave your money in an online poker account you do not expect you are taking risks.Correct?
We gotta stop picking each others posts apart because what is it acheiving?

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If he had left his money in the account, we wouldnt be having this thread. it's because he withdrew a large sum that triggered an audit, which resulted in him being caught cheating. If he withdrew smaller amounts would it have not triggered the audit? I dont know, the question has been asked to Doug and he hasnt asnwered, and he should not. That is part of their security, and I'd rather they not let people know what exactly triggers and udit or not.

I've withdrew many times from TFP and have never not recieved my money in a timely manner. So yes, I am giving FTP the benefit of doubt.

You on the other hand seem to think they owe Eric or anyone else they accuse of cheating all the details. I disagree. If you've been pegged wrongly, and it has happened... Then (from at least the people that have come on here)it gets straitened out. Not always in the timeliness fashion but it does get fixed.

Also, it seems that the people that are wrongly accused by FTP, are always involved in money transfers and or multiple screen names from the same computer i.e roomates or something, so there is a reason they were singled out in the 1st place.

If you ask me, we should all be happy that FTP DOES take cheating seriously and attempts to provide a place to play that doesnt have cheats running around all over.

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I think that if a person asks for evidence from FTP (or any other company) when they have been accused it is only fair they should get it. You cannot just go around saying to people "we think you are guilty and thats it" that just does not wash in any court of law. Now I agree its good that FTP take fraud very seriously and I applaud that, but their processes for determining who is guilty and who is not is seriously flawed. You need to be able to , at the very least, have the right to appeal to an independant company/governing body. You cannot just decide that you are judge, jury and executioner...it cant possbly work

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Unfortunatly this is not a regulated industry, so yes they are the judge, jury and executioner and it has been working, perhaps not the best but it works. All the things you want done are things everyone wants done. No need to state the obvious. But until it is regulated the sites rule and you either play at the sites or you do not. The sites want customers but they will not give every customer exactly what they want. Its not possible. If all players boycott a site then perhaps things would change but this is not going to happen. No third party verification would be worth what you want it to be worth unless it is a regulated industry. Otherwise its just some supposed third party verification that has no substance.

[phish]

Though I would like the ability to review and refute the evidence against me, I don't really mind FTP acting as judge, jury, and executioner, since I do trust that as a corporate philosophy they will try to do the right thing.
What I object to is that some employee at FT may be acting as judge, jury, and executioner, with no safeguards in place to ensure that he's correct and honest.
If FTPDoug would come back and reassure me that all seizures are independently and fully reviewed by another investigator in their Dept, that would help alleviate much of my concerns (though nothing prevents two investigators from colluding to screw you, it does become more unlikely and honest mistakes are more often caught.)

[MarkGreb]