Another PLO 6max hand... proper play?

Bogglor · #1 02-03-2006, 03:08 PM

Here's another hand I played recently. I put the preflop raiser on AAxx, as his raise was pot size, out of position, and I had no other data to go on. This is the play I have seen most often made with that hand in a shorthanded game. Is calling with a holding like this in position warranted if you feel you can narrow a raiser's hand that much? What about if he raises pot before the flop with a wider range of hands?

On the flop, I've got a pair, the second nut flush draw, and a gutshot straight draw. Given that the guy is going to pot pretty much any flop here, is reraising all in the proper play? I figure I have to be in pretty good shape vs my read of his bare aces on this board. I think I'm really only screwed if he has the nut flush draw to go with it.

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero calls $2, CO calls $2, Button folds, SB calls $1, BB raises to $12, Hero calls $8, CO folds, SB calls $8.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($38, 3 players)
SB bets $32, BB folds, Hero raises all-in $51.95, SB calls $19.95.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($141.9, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $141.9)

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($141.9, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $141.9)

Results:
Final pot: $141.9

JerseyTom · #2 02-03-2006, 03:48 PM

Maybe I don't get shorthanded play, but I don't like this hand at all in EP. Maybe for an LP limp vs a number of bad players. Maybe I'm too tight.

Once you see this flop, your whole stack is going in. You're getting ~1.7:1 on your remaining $52 and I can't think of any non-nut flush AA hand vs which you're a bigger dog than this (e.g. Ac6sAhQh has you 76/24). Most of the time your more like a 65/35 favorite.

You have great equity vs bare AA, but not enough for calling your all-in flop raise to be incorrect (he's getting ~6.4:1). Too bad your hand didn't hold up.

Tom

RickyG · #3 02-03-2006, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have great equity vs bare AA, but not enough for calling your all-in flop raise to be incorrect

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's the major problem here. You have no fold equity if you can only raise him $20 after he bets pot. it's a good spot to gamble, but I think it would be better if you had the max buy-in at the start of the hand
.

jhall23 · #4 02-03-2006, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I don't get shorthanded play, but I don't like this hand at all in EP. Maybe for an LP limp vs a number of bad players. Maybe I'm too tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so at all. Position is still very important and this hand pretty much sucks. I think it's a fold pre-flop UTG.

zizazziza · #5 02-04-2006, 02:43 AM

I agree, this is a bad hand in itself, much less from UTG. You then state that you have no reads on villian so he must be raising with AAxx PF, I think this is also a terrible thing to think. If you have no data, fold this and gain more data on villian beforem making this call. Then your next problem is that he's not getting away from this hand with the odds you're giving him (unless he thinks you have a set, but I doubt that will happen). I really do not like how this hand was played out.

RickyG · #6 02-04-2006, 04:57 AM

yes, he made a mistake playing this had PF, and yes he made a mistake not buying in for the max, but I dont believe he made a mistake going all in on the flop, regardless of whether he has fold equity.

my $0.02

Chimichonga · #7 02-04-2006, 09:44 AM

Has anyone else noticed that OP isn't even going to war with the pre-flop raiser? So, the A-A-x-x read is moot anyway.

RickyG · #8 02-04-2006, 08:43 PM

Go figure, I hadnt realized.

I still think it's good enough against someone with aces, and he still needs to have a full stack in order to make this play.

You still have some outs against a set however, and while it's not a great spot, you might use it to semi-bluff a tight oponent (if you had more chips) whom you think could lay down middle set (because you have a queen, queens are less likely, though definitely possible).

Other than that, you are putting chips in as an underdog MOST of the time in this spot.

Bogglor · #9 02-05-2006, 11:16 PM

Wow, that's pretty bad. Even I didn't notice that it wasn't the preflop raiser when posting the hand and commentary. What's worse is that I didn't even realize it when playing the hand, when I look back on it. Well, there's no excuse for that -- I'll just admit this rather embarassing mistake and move on. BTW, in the actual hand, the bettor had 55 for bottom set. And had I realized it was not the PF raiser betting in to me, I almost certainly would have folded. Heh, I don't think I've ever flat forgotten the betting action like this. Bleah.