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#11
11-30-2006, 04:29 PM
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Re: I wanted to get allin until he played it like this
this is an insane place to fold the river in any form of line
you beat alot of whiffed hands, 56 you beat any T, JJ etc bet folding the river is probably the worst option, you could just too easily be good occassionally, and youre getting about 5-1!!! 
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#13
11-30-2006, 05:31 PM
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Re: I wanted to get allin until he played it like this
What worse hands call your river bet?
A lot of this depends on Villain's 3bet range, but this looks like TT. Alternatively, this is AA/KK/AcKc. With that FE, Villain is never bluffing here. JJ never plays like this. c/f on river. it is weak, but QQ=AT in this spot. You are only hoping to pick off bluffed overs, and Villain is not bluffing here.
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#14
11-30-2006, 05:43 PM
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Re: I wanted to get allin until he played it like this
[ QUOTE ]
this is an insane place to fold the river in any form of line you beat alot of whiffed hands, 56 [/ QUOTE ] One hand = a lot of hands? How often do you expect to see this hand, in a re-raised pot, AND have them check behind the flop with it? [ QUOTE ] you beat any T, JJ etc [/ QUOTE ] Pretty unlikely for these hands to bet if checked to, but they may call a bet. A T is pretty unlikely, again, given that this is a re-raised pot. [ QUOTE ] bet folding the river is probably the worst option, you could just too easily be good occassionally, and youre getting about 5-1!!! [/ QUOTE ] What hands do you think he has, the 16% or whatever that you think have him beat? This is a HORRIBLE spot for him to bluff, from his POV, precisely because we're getting 5:1. Not to mention, he has to fear the flush or a slowplayed flopped set. River bet is okay, if you think he has a wide range for RRing PF AND will look you up light, but I think check/fold is better vs. most.
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#16
11-30-2006, 05:56 PM
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Re: I wanted to get allin until he played it like this
I think calling and 4-betting are both okay preflop. Just make sure you do the same thing with AA/KK. When you call though I think you should usually be looking for set value. Most 17/10's rarely 3-bet less than TT+,AK (though this can change depending on the original raiser), and playing this hand for value OOP unimproved is tough. The point of 4-betting would be to help you get paid off when you 4-bet AA in this spot and to charge him to draw to AK,JJ-.
I would usually expect this villain to cb most flops if MP had called, but your cold call looks pretty scary. When a non-donk cold-calls a 3-bet in the blinds, it's almost always QQ+,AK, so I could see him checking this flop with a lot of hands. On the turn I dislike your bet. He has at most six outs (unless he has exactly AKcc), so giving a free card isn't terrible. If you're beat I think checking saves money, and if you're ahead I think you're much more likely to get value on the river. The river is pretty gross; I honestly don't know what the right line is.
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#19
11-30-2006, 08:01 PM
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Re: I wanted to get allin until he played it like this
he has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] a lot here, hard to fold with the price ur getting but u gotta.
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#20
11-30-2006, 09:09 PM
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Re: I wanted to get allin until he played it like this
[ QUOTE ]
Most 17/10's rarely 3-bet less than TT+,AK [/ QUOTE ] The original pf raiser minraised and had a pfr of about 25%. I think he's reraising any hand he would normally raise with here.
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