Ftp stole my money

[Wahoo73]

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Have the accounts that he lost money to on the 1st account been investigated as well?

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Sniper, that is a great "Columbo" question! I would certainly hope that they have been investigated because the result could certainly provide a better explanation as to why eric lost that money than he was just a greedy moron, i.e., eric losing that money to others who were part of the scam would make it easier/less suspicious to get the money off of the site.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

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Yesterday I was still confused but after reading FTPDoug's post im 100% confident in FTP. Sure the investigation took way too long, but at least they are investigating. Hopefully like FTPDoug says they have room for improvment. But overall im very satisfied with FTP's stance and will continue to play at FTP.

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Investigating what???

Don't they have programs that can run HH histories a bit quicker than 2 months?

Doesn't credit card fraud get reported to them a bit quicker than 2 months?

I'm sick of giving FTP, PP, UB, and/or Pokerstars a free pass to run a shatty business just because they are lining the pockets of descent - pro poker players with tons of cash.

This is the ultimate course/ case study in business ethics, customers service and financial status tranparency.

If we keep excepting these pathetic business processes they will never be improved. At this point I don't really care what Eric did or didn't do... all I know is that if Best Buy, Toyota, Amazon.com, or Nordstroms ran their business like FT does (or any other number of online poker sites)... those large companie I mentioned would be out of business in 2 years.

instead... you and I are making these guys (not to mention their "poster players" like Jesus Fergueson) filthy rich.

[Gotmilk]

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What about FTP Doug showing the evidence to Mike Haven? I'm pretty sure this will never happen as FT seems to be completely washing their hands of everything and just wants this to go away. Also I have a feeling FTPDoug has used up all his brownie points with the FT fraud department for a while. But if Mike says, "yeah I looked at the evidence and it's solid", I think that would satisfy just about everyone here, no?

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that would be solid for me, yes.

[Gotmilk]

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Once again how does posting handhistorys jeapordize their investigation or teach me How to further defraud their site can anyone explain?

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you are preaching to the choir.

[Wahoo73]

VNH, sir!

[Willy Gee]

“Eric needs to come forward with some details of the incidents in question before FTP is obligated to anything IMO. He can't just keep pleading the 5th.”

Is this how burdens of proof work? I thought defendants plead the fifth in response to the government’s allegations of misconduct. The government then cannot impose penalties until it makes its case without the defendants’ testimony. Here, Fulltilt seized Eric’s money pending an investigation, which I understand. However, before Fulltilt can permanently impose a penalty on Eric, it has the burden of substantiating its case. Doug may be a nice guy. But his word is not good enough for me. My money may be coming out of Fulltilt shortly.

[Gotmilk]

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[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday I was still confused but after reading FTPDoug's post im 100% confident in FTP. Sure the investigation took way too long, but at least they are investigating. Hopefully like FTPDoug says they have room for improvment. But overall im very satisfied with FTP's stance and will continue to play at FTP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Investigating what???

Don't they have programs that can run HH histories a bit quicker than 2 months?

Doesn't credit card fraud get reported to them a bit quicker than 2 months?

I'm sick of giving FTP, PP, UB, and/or Pokerstars a free pass to run a shatty business just because they are lining the pockets of descent - pro poker players with tons of cash.

This is the ultimate course/ case study in business ethics, customers service and financial status tranparency.

If we keep excepting these pathetic business processes they will never be improved. At this point I don't really care what Eric did or didn't do... all I know is that if Best Buy, Toyota, Amazon.com, or Nordstroms ran their business like FT does (or any other number of online poker sites)... those large companie I mentioned would be out of business in 2 years.

instead... you and I are making these guys (not to mention their "poster players" like Jesus Fergueson) filthy rich.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I agree 100%. I had a dispute with Mansion awhile back, had a few sympathetic replies, a few replies of people in the same situation, and a bunch of people call me stupid. What I didn't have was any sort of independant 3rd party with authority to hear my complaint. I would think these companies would be falling head over heels trying to legitimize the businesses to prevent the government backlash/public backlash, but instead its still a wild west atmosphere. Thank god for companies that lead by example like Stars, and heck even Party. Though Party was slow and often suffered from language barrier problems in support, they never did anything really shady.

In funnier news, my dog is barking very angrily at his reflection. Could probably win $100k on Americas Funniest Home Videos.

[Gregg777]

I said I was done but this thread is more addictive that FTP PLO [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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That's because Eric is too smart to claim one thing one way or another, be proven wrong by a piece of evidence, and have his credibility officially destroyed. Eric needs to come forward with some details of the incidents in question before FTP is obligated to anything IMO. He can't just keep pleading the 5th.

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I am sorry but this is ridiculous.

FTPDoug has publicly stated that Eric was involved in chip dumping as evidenced by his hand histories.

Forget about Eric's details, we don't need them, if he chip dumped that's more than enough evidence to discount anything he says anyway.

But here's the rub.

Here's a guy who broke the law, and even sent copies of his ID and personal info to FTP, and he won't let this go until he at least sees some of the hand histories that Doug claims is chip dumping.

I know criminals are idiots, but this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

If I was involved in a chip dumping credit card scam and got caught, I would not keep publicly demanding proof.

I would keep my mouth shut and hope FTP, who is in a non US jurisdiction will be satisfied with the funds and move on.

Second, the moment FTPDoug posts some chip dumping hand histories this whole mess goes away.

Nobody suspects FTP of anything, and Eric probably gets a few more taunting remarks on his way out to create a different user name.

Yet FTP refuses to do this and continues to let the sit brew and fester.

Again, that makes no sense.

FTP isn't obligated to give Eric anything. He obviously violated their rules, I believe FTPDoug about that, but why does FTP allow their reputation to remain in question?

FTPDoug did say he can't publicly post someone's hand histories. Fine, don't post them, send them to the email on the account in question.

Then let Eric have the ability to post them if he wants.

If he doesn't post them, then we all know he is probably guilty and doesn't want to, but again, end of story.

[Wahoo73]

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...only to lose it all to ftp regulars according to Doug.

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No...that is not what Doug said. He said you lost it in what appeared to be "legitimate games."

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Just simply stroke of genious.

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Yes, it might be genius. It seems to me that if you wanted "launder" money from a fraudulent credit card through a poker site, this would be the least suspicious way to do it. I certainly hope that FTP investigated those players and their accounts to which you lost that money to ascertain whether they were also part of the scam.

[suzzer99]

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“Eric needs to come forward with some details of the incidents in question before FTP is obligated to anything IMO. He can't just keep pleading the 5th.”

Is this how burdens of proof work? I thought defendants plead the fifth in response to the government’s allegations of misconduct. The government then cannot impose penalties until it makes its case without the defendants’ testimony. Here, Fulltilt seized Eric’s money pending an investigation, which I understand. However, before Fulltilt can permanently impose a penalty on Eric, it has the burden of substantiating its case. Doug may be a nice guy. But his word is not good enough for me. My money may be coming out of Fulltilt shortly.

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This isn't a US court of law, it's a business dispute between 2 parties - one of them outside the realm of the US. FTP has put the ball mostly in eric's court and he hasn't done a thing with it. I'd like to see more out of FTP. But right now I'm 99.9% convinced of eric's guilt by his refusal to give his side of the story.