Deal or Misdeal? (or dead hand)...

[TMTTR]

Another "You make the call" post: This is Omaha8 -- 9 handed. The hand is dealt out and as the button receives his fourth card he looks over and notices that CO only has three cards... he tells the dealer as he pushes the last card he receives to CO and the dealer deals him another card. CO is talking to someone behind him and is oblivious of what is going on...

Action goes, two players call, one raises, two fold and cutoff turns back to the table and squeezes his cards and finds he has five cards (i.e., button was mistaken that CO only had three cards). Is this a misdeal? Does action continue with CO's hand dead? Button's hand dead? If action continues, is there a burn card (since the burn card has been dealt)?

If you have worked as a floor person (or otherwise), I would appreciate your opinion with reasons...

Thanks.

[Rottersod]

Wow. I expect we'll get at least 6 different answers here. My answer: I kick the dealer in the nuts.

[AKnoGood]

not sure of the right answer but if i was playing i would expect a misdeal

[CaseS87]

i cant see how this couldn't be called a misdeal, even though it would probably piss off a couple players.

[GTL]

cutoff's hand is dead. button has to give his hand to the cutoff for him to play. so essentially button's hand is dead but the cutoff is playing his legit four card hand.

ps- this would never happen. i think it is a creative solution. but solutions like this could never happen in a casino.

[TMTTR]

My own research from Roberts Rule:


[ QUOTE ]
MISDEALS

1. The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands. (If two players have acted in turn, the deal must be played to conclusion, as explained in rule #2)

* * *

(e) An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence.

* * *

2. Once action occurs, a misdeal can no longer be declared. The hand will be played to conclusion, and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands. In stud games, action is considered to occur when two players after the forced bet have acted on their hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I read this, it can't be a misdeal because action has occured -- but what does the exception in (e) mean?

Under Robert's Rules, CO's hand would clearly be dead because of the extra card. I also believe that one of the extra cards would become the burn card... unclear whether the button can play his hand...

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
My own research from Roberts Rule:


[ QUOTE ]
MISDEALS

1. The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands. (If two players have acted in turn, the deal must be played to conclusion, as explained in rule #2)

* * *

(e) An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence.

* * *

2. Once action occurs, a misdeal can no longer be declared. The hand will be played to conclusion, and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands. In stud games, action is considered to occur when two players after the forced bet have acted on their hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I read this, it can't be a misdeal because action has occured -- but what does the exception in (e) mean?

Under Robert's Rules, CO's hand would clearly be dead because of the extra card. I also believe that one of the extra cards would become the burn card... unclear whether the button can play his hand...

[/ QUOTE ]


Exception e basically means that if the button has not received his second card it can still be dealt to the player since the top card is still the proper card to be dealt to that player.


In your original question the answer is the CO's hand is dead. There is no misdeal because substantial action has occurred.

Assuming you have no reason to believe the button did this intentionally nothing happens to the button. If you think the button did this intentionally button gets warned and/or disinvited to continue playing in the room.

[AngusThermopyle]

What is the problem with:

Reach over and mix up CO's cards face down.
Randomly select one.
Turn face up, and make it the burn.
CO now has 4 cards. He has not gained any advantage.

[Yads]

No misdeal, significant action has already taken place. Cutoff's hand is dead. Cutoff can optionally smack button or the dealer.

[Cornell Fiji]

No misdeal, significant action has already taken place. Cutoff's hand is dead. Button's hand is live.

IMO, This one is pretty basic as per the rulebook