NL100: Getting aggressive w/tptk

[KEW]

Against an unknown I am letting this go..I want a read on villains as to how he play draws and TP..If you want to continue I would call the C/R, re-evaluate the turn then proceed

[AggJedi]

I don't understand this play, what worse hand is calling on the flop? KT, QT, JT? If that's the case I better start playing where you guys are since players at UB can actually lay top pair down.

[FoldEqu1ty]

Much more value in calling and letting him bet the turn before pushing him in. He'll have a much harder time folding his one pair hands, and you gain some extra monies when he is on a stone cold bluff. If the flush comes and he does something crazy like open push, you can very safely put him squarely on it and fold there too.

[jk3a]

I think felting this hand against a 68/21 is definitely ok for 80BBs, but I think there are better ways to do so. I would definitely call the flop raise and proceed from there. Raising/Calling AI on most turns, or betting AI if checked to.

[FoldEqu1ty]

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i dont like c/r ai on turn that much b/c im putting him on a hand like k10o or qj diamonds so a lot of overcards scare me.

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Dude you just put your stack in with one pair - if you're scared at all then fold the [censored] flop. Otherwise you're goal is to extract maximum value here, and the way to do that is to push his turn bet regardless of what peels off. Those two cards are coming anyway, if he's gonna suck out he's gonna suck out.

[j831526]

Why does everyone assume you're ahead here? He might play this way with 66 or 22 and have flopped a set. He could also have QQ or JJ. He doesn't know you, and doesn't know how aggressive you get on the button. With QQ or JJ he might choose to see a cheap flop because an A or K would make him nervous.

You can make a good case for folding, but that seems too wimpy. But what do you do if he bets the turn after you call the flop? I don't like risking my whole stack (unless short) on top pair. They always seem to have it beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

So, if you're going to call, you're looking for an A or T or his decision to not fire another bullet. A fold is only a minor loss. I'd like to know more about my opponent or have a better hand before commiting my stack. Pushing on the flop looks too aggressive for me. Fold may be right, but I'd call and see what happens on the turn.

[keikiwai]

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i dont like c/r ai on turn that much b/c im putting him on a hand like k10o or qj diamonds so a lot of overcards scare me.

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Dude you just put your stack in with one pair - if you're scared at all then fold the [censored] flop. Otherwise you're goal is to extract maximum value here, and the way to do that is to push his turn bet regardless of what peels off. Those two cards are coming anyway, if he's gonna suck out he's gonna suck out.

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This is faulty reasoning, since, if we assume we KNOW he's on a draw, letting him see the turn allows him to get away.

If we can get it all-in on the flop, and villain has a draw, we're guaranteed a pay off, when turn and river blanks.

If we call flop raise, and turn blanks, our c/r may well whiff when villain decides to take the free card.... then if river blanks villain will simply fold, but if it completes his draw, we're going to pay-off to some degree probably.

If turn hits, we pay-off to some degree.

And if turn blanks and we lead instead of a c-r, we give villain a chance to get away.

So if our read is that villain is capable of calling a flop ai w/ a draw, we have to put him all in. Vs. most villains, flop ai may not be a good play, but hero sounds like his gut tells him this is the good play vs. this particular villain, eventhough they haven't played that many hands together.

[FoldEqu1ty]

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You can make a good case for folding, but that seems too wimpy. But what do you do if he bets the turn after you call the flop? I don't like risking my whole stack (unless short) on top pair. They always seem to have it beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

So, if you're going to call, you're looking for an A or T or his decision to not fire another bullet. A fold is only a minor loss. I'd like to know more about my opponent or have a better hand before commiting my stack. Pushing on the flop looks too aggressive for me. Fold may be right, but I'd call and see what happens on the turn.

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If you plan on folding the turn to a bet unless you spike an A or a T, then you are making a really phenomenal spew here. If you're not getting out now you've got to get it in later.

[FoldEqu1ty]

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This is faulty reasoning: we assume we KNOW he's on a draw


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FYP. Seriously WTF? That's a totally ridiculous assumption. He's on a range which includes the draw, yes, but we must tailor our line to extract the most from his entire range of hands, not merely lose the least to his draws.


EDIT:

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i dont like c/r ai on turn that much b/c im putting him on a hand like k10o or qj diamonds so a lot of overcards scare me. (OP)

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If we call flop raise, and turn blanks, our c/r may well whiff when villain decides to take the free card....(keikiwai)

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What's all this about check-raising and free cards that I see in this thread here? We have position guys! lol [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Dan Bitel]

wtf guys, this hand is very standard