10$-20$ naked nut low

[Percussion]

This line seem ok?
Please comment on all streets =-)

PokerStars 10/20 Omaha/8 (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (16.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

[DanS]

[ QUOTE ]
This line seem ok?
Please comment on all streets =-)

PokerStars 10/20 Omaha/8 (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (16.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Semi [censored] position to be in, but standard IMO. You'd bet a river offsuit 3 I'd assume... what do you do on the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or an offsuit J?

[bbartlog]

I think I might reraise the button preflop. I can see not raising initially since I'd like multiway action with this hand, but once three other people seem to be along for the ride I see no reason not to build the pot some more - A23x is quite a strong hand even with the ace not suited.

After that, play is fine. No sense folding the nut low with four players in the pot, but also no sense trying to reduce the number of people in the hand when it seems likely that someone else has A2.

Personally I wonder what SB was holding in this hand. Raise on the flop, then fold on the turn when a brick hits? Seems strange. Maybe he had 84xx or something.

Anyway, if you get quartered on this hand it looks like your net loss is ($330/4 - $90) = -$7.5, ignoring rake, which is still better than you'd do than if you had folded anywhere along the line. And the odds that you're good and are up against two competing high hands / busted draws are much higher than the chance of getting 1/6th'd due to both other players holding A2xx...

[WMB]

I'd probably see the turn with the weak backdoor highs, but once that ugly king hits, give it up. barring any unusual reads, it sure looks like your getting at least quartered.

[bbartlog]

but once that ugly king hits, give it up.

Uh, what do you mean by this? Are you seriously advocating a fold? In pot limit or no limit, where our future exposure is huge, I could see an argument for this. In limit, we're sacrificing the $50 we've already put in the pot when we're extremely likely to get at least a quarter of the final pot. Folding anywhere here looks -EV to me. Folding on the turn looks to be -EV even if you know with absolute certainty that both other players have A2xx...

But maybe you're just saying he should check/call.

[T50_Omaha8]

Folding here is absurdo.

[Buzz]

Percussion - The bizarre betting of your opponents may not have much to do with the cards they hold. SB, for example, check-raises the flop and then folds to a seemingly innocuous king on the turn. Hard to say what he has in mind. Mostly deception and intimidation, I’d guess.

You have a very nice starting hand, likely the best at the table and likely the best you'll be dealt for the next three or four full rounds of the table. Played passively, the hand wins part of the pot, mostly for low, much more often than it scoops. In order to optimize the hand’s potential, you should want to promote it from a probable partial winner into a scooper.

But you can’t do that by playing the hand passively.

1st betting round:
Limping from UTG+1 is fine, but then when someone raises, Hero should go ahead and re-raise.

You’re the one who is sitting in the game. You know your opponents better than I do. But above the beginner level, Button is not necessarily showing another ace-deuce with a late position raise. Not at all. If he’s an expert, perhaps he’s raising for you benefit, possibly in an attempt to convince you or somebody else in the game that he does have an ace-deuce. (Keep in mind that you have played in such a way as to not reveal your own ace-deuce). If Button is not an expert, maybe he just has too much testosterone or thinks this game plays like Texas hold 'em.

2nd betting round:
Your best chance of promoting this hand into a scooper is to bet directly.

Although things could turn out worse (if you got counterfeited for low on the turn or river), they also could turn out better. Another time from here the turn or river might be more favorable and you might succeed in converting what would have been a partial winner into a scooper.

Although getting counterfeited on the turn or river is roughly a one out of four possibility, even when you do, with these cards and this action, you might eke out a win or partial win for low.

3rd and 4th betting rounds:
Hard to know what would happen if you bet the first two rounds more aggressively. In this particular case, with this turn and river, maybe nothing would be very different. At any rate, I’d tend to make certain one bet went into the pot on both the third and fourth betting rounds. With these particular turn and river cards, I wouldn’t go nuts and re-raise if someone raised, but I’d get that first bet in the pot.

When you’re not up against another ace-deuce after this flop, sometimes betting the turn and river, even when all you have is the low, will take the whole pot.

Even though you seem to be up against hyper-aggressive opponents, and regardless of the results, I think you should play this hand more aggressively (but not overly aggressively).

Buzz

[crusevegas]

I don't see anything wrong with the way you played the hand.

I think I would have put in a re-raise myself pre flop.

On the flop I probably would have bet in to the raiser especially if I had played it passively pre flop. With 4 people in, capping it on the flop wouldn't not have been unreasonable, especially if you did not put in a raise pre flop. I think it makes it a little tougher to put you on a hand, and in the futre when you have a big hand like nut nut you may get more value out of it.

[Kuso]

i'm kind of surprised that you called this a "naked" nut low.

you have a pair (not much now, but can improve), a backdoor flush draw, and a "gutshot" wheel draw. that's A LOT more than "naked".

anyway, buzz said all i could say and more about how to play this hand... i just wanted to comment on labeling this hand "naked".

[moneyshot]

great post buzz