Eeeek Party 30+3, do you make this call?

Dave D · #1 02-04-2006, 01:44 PM

Party 30+3, half an hour into the second hour. 125 left, 425 started.

Villians in the hand had been fairly loose as far as I could tell in that that kind of preflop action had been going on a lot. Min raises followed by a good amount of callers. So I know there's no way I could pass up that PF call, it's only a min raise and there's a ton of implied odds.

My question is, do you make this call on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t3670)
UTG (t1855)
UTG+1 (t5843)
UTG+2 (t1720)
MP1 (t4480)
MP2 (t7403)
Hero (t1535)
CO (t6132)
Button (t1940)
SB (t2665)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t300</font>, UTG+1 calls t300, UTG+2 calls t300, 2 folds</font>, Hero calls t300, 2 folds</font>, SB calls t225, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t1800) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 is all in for 1420, hero...

Foucault · #2 02-04-2006, 01:56 PM

I'd throw it away. There is too good of a chance he's got a higher pair than yours, and even if he doesn't, you are not way ahead of two overcards. Plus, there is the chance (though a slim one) that someone behind you has a hand.

Dave D · #3 02-04-2006, 02:00 PM

Am I missing something? I'm 77% against overcards... Which is exactly what I put him on (like AJ), which is why he pushed, he doesnt really want a call. I figured a medium pair would bet

FGators · #4 02-04-2006, 02:08 PM

I just don't seem him making this play with overcards against so many people, unless he's a total maniac. I think he understands that anybody with 88+ calls and you are obviously considering 55 because of your straight draw/set.

I think it's close but I would fold because I really feel you are behind right now.

Foucault · #5 02-04-2006, 02:12 PM

OK, not way ahead was an exaggeration, but your edge against overcards is much smaller than an overpair's edge against you. and why would a medium pair not push here? It's less than a pot sized bet, and there are quite a lot of players in the pot, so a good chance of getting paid off regardless. It would actually be quite quite ballsy to push overcards with so many others in the hand.

Ansky · #6 02-04-2006, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing something? I'm 77% against overcards... Which is exactly what I put him on (like AJ), which is why he pushed, he doesnt really want a call. I figured a medium pair would bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? He has less than the size of the pot.

This is a ridiculously easy fold.

Dave D · #7 02-04-2006, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing something? I'm 77% against overcards... Which is exactly what I put him on (like AJ), which is why he pushed, he doesnt really want a call. I figured a medium pair would bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? He has less than the size of the pot.

This is a ridiculously easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I mean is that I'd expect a medium pair to bet with the intention of calling a push. Ie he wants the action, whereas a push is more likely to scare people off.

I guess I just thought the chances of him pulling this move w/ overcards was worth the call. Guess not.

Anyway, I called, we had the same hand, and split cuz everyone else folded.

CrazyJDEight · #8 02-04-2006, 03:46 PM

I don't like your call preflop. You are calling 20% of your stack in a hand that will be at least 4 way. You don't hit a set often enough to risk that much of your stack there. I think preflop pushing (depending on read of UTG) is best followed closely by folding with calling way behind.

The way the hand played out I think you should call because UTG+2 would probably have reraised with 88+ preflop and is most likely pushing overcards to steal the pot.

Foucault · #9 02-04-2006, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your call preflop. You are calling 20% of your stack in a hand that will be at least 4 way. You don't hit a set often enough to risk that much of your stack there. I think preflop pushing (depending on read of UTG) is best followed closely by folding with calling way behind.

The way the hand played out I think you should call because UTG+2 would probably have reraised with 88+ preflop and is most likely pushing overcards to steal the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the fact that the pot is four-way makes the call quite attractive, as he doesn't need to win very much (though he probably will) when he makes a set, given the good immediate odds he is getting pre-flop. I do think he is calling purely for set value though (or possibly a 234 flop or something), and needs to give it up when he misses, even when he has an overpair.

Pat Southern · #10 02-04-2006, 03:52 PM

If the raiser had been really loose preflop (like you think theres a good chance he's doing this with AT, KQ, KJ) then I push preflop and hope to take a flip with a ton of dead money. Otherwise I'd fold. The stacks just arent deep enough to offer you good implied odds if you hit your flop.