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#11
11-20-2006, 01:57 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
[ QUOTE ]
If I had folded and plyr 3 had AQ no flush and wanted to get fancy I would have damage my computer and been unable to make this post initially. [/ QUOTE ] In that case It's correct to call, I wouldn't have OVERcalled though. But I don't think this kind of decisions really matter in the long run. If folding is better than calling, It's a very small difference when it comes to EV 
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#12
11-20-2006, 02:05 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
[ QUOTE ]
wpex 3/6 ** Dealing River ** Community cards: [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] Guruman: checks Player 3: Bets Player 5: Raises [/ QUOTE ] Question 1 Does this play have any merit with a relatively weak hand like 2 pair? Donk might be bluffing and if player 5 has a read on Guruman, he might get him to fold a better hand and also get player 3 to fold (maybe even a low flush). In this case you probably DO NOT want overcalls with top pair, so how would a raise do? Question 2 If a raise is a good play by player 5, is a 3bet by Guruman an even BETTER "metagame" play? Player 3 probably will only call with a stronger flush for 3 bets while player 5s raise indicates a WEAK hand more than a strong hand; otherwise he would have went for overcalls because OP thinks he is a good player. I don't know, maybe this is all stupidity but I thought it would be fun to look at. Probably a more reasonable play at 20-40 because people make more 'plays' there.
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#13
11-20-2006, 02:10 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
a followup, given that I knew parkinson was a 2+2r with a very narrow range preflop, should I have considered a fold there?
He'll have my hand dominated with a big pair a significant chunk (plus revers implied odds when I catch), I'll be barely behind TT-QQ for a good chunk (with no implied odds there when I draw out), and I'll be dominating AQ-AT and KQ the rest of the time with implied odds intact, but position working against me. Should a preflop fold be in the conversation given the information I had available to me? If not, what's the best Ace I should consider folding here?
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#14
11-20-2006, 02:18 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] wpex 3/6 ** Dealing River ** Community cards: [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] Guruman: checks Player 3: Bets Player 5: Raises [/ QUOTE ] Question 1 Does this play have any merit with a relatively weak hand like 2 pair? Donk might be bluffing and if player 5 has a read on Guruman, he might get him to fold a better hand and also get player 3 to fold (maybe even a low flush). In this case you probably DO NOT want overcalls with top pair, so how would a raise do? Question 2 If a raise is a good play by player 5, is a 3bet by Guruman an even BETTER "metagame" play? Player 3 probably will only call with a stronger flush for 3 bets while player 5s raise indicates a WEAK hand more than a strong hand; otherwise he would have went for overcalls because OP thinks he is a good player. I don't know, maybe this is all stupidity but I thought it would be fun to look at. Probably a more reasonable play at 20-40 because people make more 'plays' there. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think I could ever make that play because I can't assume that anything worse than a flush is raising that river. I think if I wanted to get tricky I could just lead at the river and hope a small flush folds, but I consider that pretty unlikely too.
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#15
11-20-2006, 02:37 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
ik think the problem with raising here is player 3, since he played so far so passive, i dont expect him to fold a flush (probably not even the deuce high). so many people just cannot fold to a river raise.
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#16
11-20-2006, 02:58 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
PF I think is cap but it's very close. You'll probabily only fold out hands your dominating (although you'll have dead money in the pot) and you're equity while probabily >33% is pretty small. You would need to take initiative post flop, you're out of position. That being said, capping almost definitly gains immediate value... Just how much is the question.
River, check and see the action to you. Fold to a bet,raise.. Fold to a bet, call The other two scenarios id probabily call becaues of the enormous pot.. But it's VERY likely you are beaten. It may even be a fold.
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#17
11-20-2006, 04:03 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
[ QUOTE ]
Should a preflop fold be in the conversation given the information I had available to me? If not, what's the best Ace I should consider folding here? [/ QUOTE ] AK = not on your life AQs I'm debating between a cold call and a cap AQo is usually a CC for me, but occasionally I'll fold it AJ is a fold Unless parkinson is an especially tight player, his 3-betting range is pretty big. Mine would include A9s+, ATo+, 77+, KQo, KJs and maybe a few more.
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#18
11-20-2006, 05:13 PM
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Re: big bit pot with increasingly worse cards falling
Guru: I do not think it is a fold PF, even against a player as tight as myself. The BB discount should more than make up for the times you are dominated by AA/KK or hold the same hand as me. I'm not Pokerstoving it or anything, but I intuitively feel that you are fine even if the 3-bettor's range is TT+/AK/AQs since you obviously play well enough post-flop.
Ouch... what was that guy doing with a 7? But anyway, there's yet another reason to fold the river... the possible split when you actually do win.
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