first impressions

[Entity]

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99 never folds once it calls the flop and you know that.

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Agreed. I think you're right about not betting the turn. I just also think that checkfolding the flop is the best play, though I like your inventiveness.

Rob

[milesdyson]

entity, it's not something i do very often at all. but the board was good so i took a shot. its nice when people note that you pure bluff check raise flops too.

[Scary_Tiger]

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wow wtf you think i should check call K75r w/ QJo here? really? just hoping for turn checks with underpairs or unpaired aces or what????

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And perhaps betting or c/r turn 9, T, J, Q or A.

All opponent dependent of course. Reads would help. I realize somewhere in this 5 page thread you've said more but I can't really be bothered. Post in OP please.

[MacGuyV]

I guess if your main point here is that the forum needs to think before mindlessly following up every C/R with a turn bet, then ok, I agree.
But you're also somebody who has championed the idea (rightfully so IMO) that nobody folds to flop C/R's immediately on the flop regardless of their hand and their board.
I guess you could say that might be different with better competition @10/20 but then by that same token you also have to consider that button is 3betting your open hijack with a much wider range.

[RunDownHouse]

Grunch: Button missed an easy, easy, 100% river bet. If HJ c/r's river and I'm button, I pay him and make a note. But as long as HJ is within 10 miles of competent/sane, he's not checking through the river with anything of value. He may call an ok amount hoping to pick off bluffs, though.

I can't really put HJ on a hand other than a 7 or 5 that pussed out (again, assuming decent level of play), or maybe an 86 that gave up, something like that. But a flop air c/r without a turn followup just meas no sense, since almost everyone calls with just about any two on the flop and only folds to a turn lead with nothing (not the flop c/r). I'm guilty, too... I'll call the flop c/r with some really random [censored] sometimes figuring even if I don't spike, I don't want to fold to every flop c/r that comes my way, and I don't want to call and raise later with every strong made hand.

So I guess this smells like a weak MP (<10) or some sort of draw. Its too stupid to do with a made hand and its too stupid to do with air.

[Unguarded]

Dyson, I still don't get the flop C/R. It just seems like you need a solid read indicating that villain is either tight enough to fold underpairs or will 3-bet you PF with many weaker aces (at least ATo+,A8s+) for this play to begin to make sense. It seems like such a spew that you will never make up for it in advertising value. By not following up on the turn, I tend to think you were in fact lacking such reads. Maybe I'm missing something here?

[milesdyson]

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I guess if your main point here is that the forum needs to think before mindlessly following up every C/R with a turn bet, then ok, I agree.
But you're also somebody who has championed the idea (rightfully so IMO) that nobody folds to flop C/R's immediately on the flop regardless of their hand and their board.

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yeah im not saying my flop cr was +ev. i bet it is close to neutral though if you run some numbers given the size of the pot. i had two reasons for posting (especially given how this guy played his hand) -

1. to see what tags would note about me.
2. to see if everyone thought i should make what i thought to be a pointless turn bet.

[Kwaz]

I would have bet the river.

But this flop move will set up the super sweet double c/r in the future.

[milesdyson]

"I would have bet the river."

with my hand (QJ)?

[Kwaz]

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"I would have bet the river."

with my hand (QJ)?

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If he doesn't call, I make money. If he calls, I make my money from the bet later.