Legalize street drugs???

[tehox]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It has never entered my mind to try heroin or crystal meth, but to be honest that at least in some part due to the fact taht I have never been offered the opportunity. The fact is that those drugs are very taboo and hard to find due to the "war on drugs".

[/ QUOTE ]

Why hasn't this country been destroyed by DXM? We all know about DXM, it's cheap, it's fun, it's easy to get, no one's planning on banning it any time soon, it's addictive, it's bad for you, and it's a hard drug by any measure.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest I have never tried it. Is it really as fun as alchol, pot, heroin, etc.? I know someone that tried it but he had a bad experience.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People, especially adolescents/teenagers, can be stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

How would you feel about just making it legal for people over 21 as we do with alky?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is going to keep it out of the hands of teenagers.

I guess is your opinion more of a practical one (that the cost of war on drugs is worse than legalizing) or more philosphical (government should not be in the business of telling people what to put in their bodies)?

[Stu Pidasso]

It should be decided by each individual state.

Stu

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I have never tried it. Is it really as fun as alchol, pot, heroin, etc.? I know someone that tried it but he had a bad experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never done it, personally. I've thought about it and I have a bunch of robitussin cough gels, but every time I read about it on erowid something about it just didn't sit well with me and I decide not to do it. Most of the people I know who have tried it seemed not to like it much (this seems true for all the dissociatives), but I know people who really love the stuff. I know two people who have gotten extremely addicted to it (tripping to third or foruth plateaus on a daily basis). Most dissociative nuts think it's on par with ketamine, and quite a few actually prefer dex.

However, it is considered a very hard drug, and most people treat it as such even though any twelve year old can go buy it over the counter.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is going to keep it out of the hands of teenagers.

[/ QUOTE ]

The current system isn't working too well either, bro.

Want to guess which popular drug is the LEAST often pushed on teenagers on the streets? I'll give you a hint, we banned it during the twenties and now you can advertise for it on TV.

[tehox]

[ QUOTE ]

Want to guess which popular drug is the LEAST often pushed on teenagers on the streets? I'll give you a hint, we banned it during the twenties and now you can advertise for it on TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't think this is really a valid point with regards to what I talked about before. You don't have people on the street selling alcohol because the market is not there. It does not mean that it is not readily available to kids that do want it. I think I was 16 the first time I got drunk and I think I was probably a late bloomer [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that pot should be legalized. That anyone spends a day in jail for this is IMO a travesty. I differ on stronger drugs like heroin or crystal meth (or some unknown "super drug" of the future").

[/ QUOTE ]
Translation: The drugs that I like should be legalized. The one's I don't like should be allowed.
[ QUOTE ]
People, especially adolescents/teenagers, can be stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Translation: I'm smart enough to realize not to do hard drugs, but everyone else isn't. I should spend billions of other people's money to stop them from doing it.
[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that those drugs are very taboo and hard to find due to the "war on drugs".

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank god we spent those billions (hundreds of billions?) on making a few people that will do while legal but won't why it's legal. Let's all toast to Reagan.

This is wrong anyway. Anyone that has connections to get weed can very easily get meth or heroine.
[ QUOTE ]
I have read that there are half a million heroin addicts in the United States. I don't think this because all are degenerates that would otherwise be addicted to something else. I think that it is a very powerful, addictive drug

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, the ole legalize it and everyone and there mom will be a junkie argument. Unfortunately it's unfounded, there was no spike in alcohol consumption following the end of prohibiton.
[ QUOTE ]
and there is something to be said for keeping it out of the hands of children. And i'm sorry if it becomes legalized, many many more children will become exposed to it.

[/ QUOTE ]
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
What do you define as a "child"? under that definiton, how many "children" are "exposed" to "hard" drugs now? What is a reason for why this number would increase after legalization?

[tehox]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that pot should be legalized. That anyone spends a day in jail for this is IMO a travesty. I differ on stronger drugs like heroin or crystal meth (or some unknown "super drug" of the future").

[/ QUOTE ]
Translation: The drugs that I like should be legalized. The one's I don't like should be allowed.

[/ QUOTE ]

No not really. I think our society is slwoly coming to a consensus that marijuana is an *acceptable* drug while heroin is not. I am just saying that I am on that bandwagon.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People, especially adolescents/teenagers, can be stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Translation: I'm smart enough to realize not to do hard drugs, but everyone else isn't. I should spend billions of other people's money to stop them from doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't think that the reason that I've never tried these drugs is becuase I'm smart and those that try them are stupid. I have never in my life been exposed to anyone that uses these drugs. At certain points in my life I don't know whether I would have tried them or not.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that those drugs are very taboo and hard to find due to the "war on drugs".

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank god we spent those billions (hundreds of billions?) on making a few people that will do while legal but won't why it's legal. Let's all toast to Reagan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I think part of the problem with the war on drugs is that a lot is focues on pot, which I have said I am against.

[ QUOTE ]
This is wrong anyway. Anyone that has connections to get weed can very easily get meth or heroine.

[/ QUOTE ]

From my experience this is not true

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have read that there are half a million heroin addicts in the United States. I don't think this because all are degenerates that would otherwise be addicted to something else. I think that it is a very powerful, addictive drug

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, the ole legalize it and everyone and there mom will be a junkie argument. Unfortunately it's unfounded, there was no spike in alcohol consumption following the end of prohibiton.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have better evidence than this that your arguments are right and mine are wrong (which you feel very certain of from your tone) please present them. I think this is pretty weak.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and there is something to be said for keeping it out of the hands of children. And i'm sorry if it becomes legalized, many many more children will become exposed to it.

[/ QUOTE ]
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
What do you define as a "child"? under that definiton, how many "children" are "exposed" to "hard" drugs now? What is a reason for why this number would increase after legalization?

[/ QUOTE ]
Again I've said that I've never in my life been exposed to anyone using heroin or crystal meth, and never have had it offered to me. My arugment is that this would probably change if it were legal.

[kt421]

Good thread and good discussion, to which I'll add a few items. The first is to suggest that "legalization" can have a broad range of meaning; from heroin available at the local market to heroin available by prescription only (for example). I favor ending criminal prohibition and replacing it with a reasonable set of regulations covering production, distribution and use of all substances. Now some replies, taken at random from the thread.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess someone should take the anti-drug position here. While I think that pot should be legalized, I'm not in favor of legalizing Cocaine or Heroin.

Cocaine and Heroin are extremely dangerous drugs that kill hundreds or thousands of people a year. People who get addicted to these drugs are huge burdens on society. The effect of increasing the cost of these drugs is a social good because the artifically higher cost deters people from using them. While everyone won't become junkies when heroin becomes legal, more people will and we have to stop that. We should fight these drugs with every tool we have: both treatment and criminalization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Criminalization is not a tool that helps fight drug use. The failure of drug prohibition to achieve any significant reduction in drug use should prove that, if nothing else. In fact, drug policy may have little effect on use rates (The Limited Relevance of Drug Policy).

Query: which posters would run out and try heroin tomorrow if it were legal?

Anyway, the initial premise is faulty - heroin and cocaine are not very dangerous drugs. Sure, when used improperly they can be dangerous. Or the negative effects of prohibition make them dangerous (adulteration, inability to know the true potency and dosage, propaganda disguised as education instead of true education to name a few). But they are not inherently dangerous.

[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt smoking pot give you cancer? Or at least it would if you were smoking it in a joint with some tabacco.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, smoking pot does not give you cancer. (Science Daily report on May 23 study) Notably, the senior researcher, Dr. Tashkin, has been an ardent anti-marijuana researcher and propagandist for the US NIDA for years.

In fact, marijuana may actually help fight cancer (New Scientiest report on study linking cannabinoids to tumor shrinkage).

[ QUOTE ]
3. Willmagic is right that there are negative externalities of the Drug War, but they exist for mere drug use too. Families are torn apart by junkies. Property is stolen. While the drug war raises prices, I'm not sure that stealing would end if we legalized. Junkies will still need to get a fix and they will still have trouble getting a job (another negative externality) regardless of the price. While less stuff might get stolen, I doubt it would stop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly stealing won't stop. Stealing to buy drugs will essentially stop. As will prostituting yourself to buy drugs. For those who still can't afford the cheaper price and are truly addicted, the logical thing to do would be to give them the drugs.

[ QUOTE ]
4. While the threat of incarceration is one way that the drug war discourages drug use, another way it does it is the accompanying social stigma.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this is that we can easily achieve the social stigma without the negatives created by prohibition. The only success in drug demand reduction in the last 40 years is tobacco. Cigarette smoking is down basically because of education and social stigma - yet cigarettes are legal, highly addictive, cheap, marketed heavily and available everywhere.

[ QUOTE ]
People say grass is a gateway drug. It's not. Alcohol is the gateway drug.

[/ QUOTE ]

The concept of a "gateway drug" is faulty whether applied to marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, aspirin, chocolate - whatever.

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of the above, legalization will never happen. International treaties are at stake...

[/ QUOTE ]

All of the treaties have outs, whether constitutional, medical or simply by virtue of being able to withdraw. In fact, if the US were to pull out many countries would rejoice, as the US is the primary proponent of the treaties and is actively using them to block drug policy reform efforts around the world.

[ QUOTE ]

Here's an experiment for you. Get a brand new bowl. Not the kind for dope, the white porcelain kind for eating. Eat out of it for a week without cleaning it. Look at the results. That's your esophagus and stomach and if you somehow think a bowl is magically different because it's made of porcelain rather than flesh, well then I don't know what to tell you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
No not really. I think our society is slwoly coming to a consensus that marijuana is an *acceptable* drug while heroin is not. I am just saying that I am on that bandwagon.


[/ QUOTE ]
Then why do we need laws to enforce it? Why don't you let Jeff the junkie put what he wants in his body?
[ QUOTE ]
No I don't think that the reason that I've never tried these drugs is becuase I'm smart and those that try them are stupid. I have never in my life been exposed to anyone that uses these drugs. At certain points in my life I don't know whether I would have tried them or not.


[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you think the war on drugs has caused this?
[ QUOTE ]
Well I think part of the problem with the war on drugs is that a lot is focues on pot, which I have said I am against.


[/ QUOTE ]
Link?
[ QUOTE ]
From my experience this is not true

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you go to a public highschool or college?
[ QUOTE ]
If you have better evidence than this that your arguments are right and mine are wrong (which you feel very certain of from your tone) please present them. I think this is pretty weak.


[/ QUOTE ]
No I don't have any evidence, I'll look for some later. The fact of the matter is though that prohibition is commonly thought of as the dumbest thing the government has ever done. Why would do you think people think that?

Your complete assertion that everyone will become a junkie with legalization is absurd, and very weak.
[ QUOTE ]
Again I've said that I've never in my life been exposed to anyone using heroin or crystal meth, and never have had it offered to me. My arugment is that this would probably change if it were legal.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again,
[ QUOTE ]
What do you define as a "child"? under that definiton, how many "children" are "exposed" to "hard" drugs now? What is a reason for why this number would increase after legalization?


[/ QUOTE ]
Also I'd like to throw in a bonus question. Why do have the right to tell others what to put in their bodies when not harming others?

[tehox]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From my experience this is not true

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you go to a public highschool or college?

[/ QUOTE ]

public high school


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you have better evidence than this that your arguments are right and mine are wrong (which you feel very certain of from your tone) please present them. I think this is pretty weak.


[/ QUOTE ]
No I don't have any evidence, I'll look for some later. The fact of the matter is though that prohibition is commonly thought of as the dumbest thing the government has ever done. Why would do you think people think that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that Prohibition is very special case. That I don't really think there is any good evidence one way or the other what would happen if tomorrow say herion was made legal, that was really my only point.


[ QUOTE ]
Your complete assertion that everyone will become a junkie with legalization is absurd, and very weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not my assertion.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Again I've said that I've never in my life been exposed to anyone using heroin or crystal meth, and never have had it offered to me. My arugment is that this would probably change if it were legal.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again,
[ QUOTE ]
What do you define as a "child"? under that definiton, how many "children" are "exposed" to "hard" drugs now? What is a reason for why this number would increase after legalization?


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


Also I'd like to throw in a bonus question. Why do have the right to tell others what to put in their bodies when not harming others?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the main point of our difference of opinion. I'll think about it more tomorrow and post again, though I'm pretty sure you know what I'm going to say. Mostly along the lines of "protecting the children", which I do think is important, and the reality that in society as it exists today that if you do things that harm yourself they could ulitmately be harmful to society.

[holyfield5]

[ QUOTE ]
Mostly along the lines of "protecting the children", which I do think is important, and the reality that in society as it exists today that if you do things that harm yourself they could ulitmately be harmful to society.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the stuff is so bad why do i see 10 ads a day of lies and propoganda? if the motives of the govt were so honorable they would be more truthful.....i dont much like the im lying for your own good america attitude.

you can protect the children without penalizing the adults.

i think many of the points of previous post is the war on drugs harms society more than legalization.

if you get arrested for possession this can send your life into a massive downward spiral.