Commerce 2/4.... some folds

[siegfriedandroy]

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Hey,

Spent some time at Commerce this past week and managed to play 2/4 on multiple occasions. Thought I'd relay some hands and see what you guys thought.

4 handed for the first one. Opponent, for those who know her, is Jade. She basically just plays really good. I raise AhKd UTG and she 3 bets her button, I call HU.

Flop Ac Jc 6h I c/r and 4 bet her 3 bet she calls. Turn 7c I bet she raises I call. River Qc I check fold. Pretty damn sure I got the river right. What about the rest?


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What are you hoping to be beating on that turn? What are you hoping for on the river to warrant a call other than the two non club kings and even those are prolly no good?


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Second hand is against Ana. Apparently she wins a lot there, but I think she plays too tight and predictably for this limit. She is stuck and although not tilting hard or anything, is very likely upset at the time. I am also losing at this point in the game and could appear to be a little on edge.

Anyhow, I raise KsQs up front in a 7 or 8 handed game and she 3 bets her SB and I call. Flop is Js 9s 4d and I just call. Turn is the 3d and I raise her bet, she 3 bets me and I call.


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A lot of folks here disagree with this play, I think it's good IF Ana has pockets lower than 9 often enough. It'd be better to raise flop if she has AQ or AK and better to raise turn if she has a low pocket.

If she has anything better than low pocket then you're basically spewing it, and imho that's more often than her having low pockets that she wouldn't have folded otherwise.

So um, the play is not wrong, but a flop raise would be better.


What do you guys think of simply calling the flop and then calling the turn instead of raising?

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hey alex. i agree that in hand 1, it seems incongruous to call turn and fold riv. i'd probably fold the turn after the flop action. hard to say, though, not knowing how exactly how she plays.

in hand 2, why do you think a flop raise is more likely to get rid of ak/aq? as for just calling flop and turn, i think this is fine, and not sure it's correct to constantly go nuts w/ good draws. probably best to keep your lines well balanced.

[siegfriedandroy]

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What do you guys think of simply calling the flop and then calling the turn instead of raising?

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Your draw is so strong that you are a coinflip against a range of 99+, AQ+. Even against her 3-betting range (all the pairs except TT, basically), you hold your own with 43% equity. So you really only need the thinnest of justifications to raise the flop.

I do think, however, that playing it straight-up (call/folding unless you improve) is better than raising the turn given this board texture.

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you're saying it's a coinflip w/ one card to come, or two? (i assume two) does this make any difference in determining whether to raise flop or turn? (probably not, except for having one less unseen card). anyway, what about the board texture makes you more inclined to raise the flop, but not the turn?

[siegfriedandroy]

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My only comment is that in the second hand I disagree with you that raising the turn is the best way to get AK to fold. Or 88 for that matter. Raising the turn there I think is viewed more of a power play and people dont like to be bullied. I think raising the flop and betting all streets your going to get AK and AQ and 88 to fold a lot of the time. Its hard to put you on a flush draw or Q10 and just call all streets.

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worm, if you had 88 here against ian j, what st would you fold?

[siegfriedandroy]

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Wow that surprises me that you see it that way mike. It sure as hell seems that if I raise this particular flop and something like the 4 pairs and then an offsuit 2 come I'm most always getting called by both of the hands you mentioned. I don't know though, could just be different experiences.

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The one psychological point behind raising the flop under this circumstance is that I think AK/AQ generally re-evaluate the hand at least once after calling the flop raise (usually on the river). On the turn on the other hand, most players are locked into calling the river once they call your turn raise.

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yeah, but the point is to get her to fold to the turn raise, right?