My Subconscious Game...Good or Bad?

.KeviN. · #1 11-13-2006, 04:08 PM

My NL live game (haven't played limit live yet) is mostly based on subconscious impulses. To put it in other words, I'm not really listening to clear words in my mind when thinking about a play. It's like a feeling inside me that weighs options and puts opponents on likely hands, but these option and hands are not clear to me where I can logically seperate and dissect them. After the hand, though, I can talk to someone and describe the hand and my thought processes in immense detail to the point where I ask myself was I really thinking this?

Now my worry is this. In Psychology of Poker and elsewhere, the recommended method of thinking is visual. You clearly think everything out like you're talking to yourself. Now I do this when ghosting, but when I'm in the hand it is totally the opposite. So far I've had very good results playin live NL to the point where I think I'm just running very very lucky.

My question is how dangerous is this approach to the game? It seems like it can take away a sort of certainty that a more visual player might have. It also seems that it will result in bigger losses on off nights. Does any one else play like this, and what are the pros and cons of both approaches?

wazz · #2 11-13-2006, 05:34 PM

Some people's minds work differently. It does help if you try to quantify what you're thinking about when you're thinking it, so before you move in your chips after making your decision try to work out what your basis for making that decision is. I would say that if your 'subconscious game' has been helping you come to the correct decisions you should be fine, but it always helps to try to formalize your reasons at the time.

Margin Of Error · #3 11-13-2006, 06:17 PM

I find the exact same thing to be true of my live game. However I cannot for the life of me figure out how to play subconciously online and so far I have been a minor loser online over about 200k hands. As opposed to live NL where I am a big winner over maybe 15k hands.

Kind of like you described sometimes I will be able to know exactly where I am in a hand without thinking about it conciously whatsoever and it's not until the hand is over that I actually start thinking about the hand analytically.

GardenaMiracle · #4 11-13-2006, 06:48 PM

I have thought about this from time to time. I believe that over the years, I have developed a certain poker ESP. I think it is actually pattern recognition that comes from many hours of play in close quarters with other players. This is different from what is sometimes called the Lizard Brain, that triggers emotional reaction based on fear and survival, which I consider to be very dangerous in a poker. So, I don't think that using subconscience cues is necessarily illogical or irrational, as long as they are coming from the correct brain. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

FortunaMaximus · #5 11-13-2006, 06:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is actually pattern recognition that comes from many hours of play in close quarters with other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. You can compare it to a guitar player and muscle memory. While the brain is not technically a muscle, certain properties can be applicable.

GardenaMiracle · #6 11-13-2006, 11:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is actually pattern recognition that comes from many hours of play in close quarters with other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. You can compare it to a guitar player and muscle memory. While the brain is not technically a muscle, certain properties can be applicable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, your post makes me think of golf; when you are at the top of your swing and the fear sets in. You think about survival and putting the club face on the ball. You cannot possibly hit a good shot at this point. You MUST reject this instinct. I too play a stringed instrument, and could not possibly play well if I were thinking about each movent of my fingers.

fraac · #7 11-13-2006, 11:07 PM

Yes, you must avoid The Fear. Also, playing subconsciously you have no ready defence against self-destructive tendencies (if those are natural for you). I found that dropping acid was significantly +EV.

GardenaMiracle · #8 11-13-2006, 11:40 PM

Ah, the 70's.

Abbaddabba · #9 11-14-2006, 12:01 AM

Some people have a great intuition for things like poker.

Most people... not so great.

When you know why you do what you do, and you've done it enough times, it eventually becomes an intuitive response. I dont go through a detailed thought process on why im folding, calling or raising any more and i cant imagine that anyone who multitables can. My wallet says that it seems to be working.

Satchmo72 · #10 11-14-2006, 12:08 AM

I understand what you mean, I was thinking about this very same question and had asked about +/- EV situations because I wanted to learn to use the math a bit more in my playing instead of going by "how I feel."

Some of the math these guys talk about in certain situations boggles the mind and I could not imagine going through that every play. Maybe that is why I still think poker is fun and not a drudgery that 18 tabling has to be. That and I suck when I multi-table!!!!!!!