Why Canadians don't need wings.

[FortunaMaximus]

<font color="red">The Hedge at Vimy Ridge.</font>

<font color="gray">Gabe:
Of course we forget who we are and jump back into life.

Gabe:
We do the right things anyway without knowing what we were.

Gabe says:
And when it comes time.

Mike: nods, draws on his cigarette.

Gabe:
Critical points in history.

Gabe:
We're there. we make goddamn sure.

Gabe:
Because we're never sure of god himself. and he knows this. He damns us anyway.

Gabe:
How else are we gonna learn?</font>

<font color="green">Somewhere, somewhen, She laughs.</font>



The Leafs won too, last night. Sorry it was a little late this year.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Kristopher.

[FortunaMaximus]

More on Vimy Ridge:

This was one of the more significant battles of WW1.

Some excerpts from http://wwii.ca

[ QUOTE ]
No Allied operation on the Western Front was more thoroughly planned than this deliberate frontal attack on what seemed to be virtually invincible positions. Vimy Ridge was so well fortified that all previous attempts to capture it had failed. However, Canadian commanders had learned bitter lessons from the cost of past frontal assaults made by vulnerable infantry. This time their preparations were elaborate. As the Canadian Commander of the 1st Division, Major-General Arthur Currie, said,"Take time to train them." This is exactly what the Canadian Corps did, down to the smallest unit and the individual soldier.

In the late autumn of 1916, the Canadians moved north, capping their ordeal on the Somme, to relieve British troops opposite the western slopes of Vimy Ridge. They spent the coldest winter of the war strengthening defences, carrying out increasingly frequent raids on enemy trenches and gathering intelligence, in preparation for the spring offensive. Continual raiding from mid-March on cost the Canadians 1,400 casualties. However, the knowledge gained would later help the Canadians take their Vimy objectives with lighter losses.

A full-scale replica of the battle area was laid out with reams of coloured tape and flags behind the Canadian lines. Here Canadian units carried out repeated exercises, rehearsing exactly what they would do throughout the day of the attack. Maps were given out to guide the smallest units. The troops were fully informed about their objectives and their routes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
At 5.30 a.m., April 9, 1917, Easter Monday, the creeping artillery barrage began to move steadily toward the Germans. Behind it advanced 20,000 soldiers of the first attacking wave of the four Canadian divisions, a score of battalions in line abreast, leading the assault in a driving north-west wind that swept the mangled countryside with sleet and snow. Guided by paint-marked stakes, the leading infantry companies crossed the devastation of No Man's Land, picking their way through shell-holes and shattered trenches. They were heavily laden. Each soldier carried at least 32 kilograms of equipment, plus, some say, a similar weight of the all-pervasive mud on uniform and equipment. This burden made climbing in and out of the numerous trenches and craters particularly difficult.

There was some hand-to-hand fighting, but the greatest resistance, and heavy Canadian losses, came from the strongly-emplaced machine-guns in the German intermediate line. Overcoming this resistance, three of the four divisions captured their part of the Ridge by midday, right on schedule. In the final stage, the 2nd Canadian Division was assisted by the British 13th Brigade, which fell under its command for the operation.

The 4th Canadian Division's principal objective was Hill 145, the highest and most important feature of the whole Ridge. Once taken, its summit would give the Canadians a commanding view of German rearward defences in the Douai Plain as well as those remaining on the Ridge itself.

Because of its importance, the Germans had fortified Hill 145 with well-wired trenches and a series of deep dug-outs beneath its rear slope. The brigades of the 4th Division were hampered by fire from the Pimple, the other prominent height, which inflicted costly losses on the advancing waves of infantry. Renewed attacks were mounted using troops that were originally scheduled to attack the Pimple. Finally, in the afternoon of April 10, a fresh assault by a relieving brigade cleared the summit of Hill 145 and thus placed the whole of Vimy Ridge in Canadian hands. Two days later, units of the 10th Canadian Brigade successfully stormed the Pimple. By that time, the enemy had accepted the loss of Vimy Ridge as permanent and had pulled back more than three kilometres.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Private William Milne of the 16th Battalion won the VC when he crawled up to a German machine-gun that had been firing on the advancing Canadians, bombed its crew and captured the gun. Later, he stalked a second machine-gun, killing its crew and capturing it, but was himself killed shortly thereafter. The whereabouts of Private Milne's grave is unknown.

Lance-Sergeant Ellis Sifton of the 18th Battalion charged a machine-gun post single-handed, leaping into the trench where it was concealed and killing its crew. Soon after, he was met by a small party of Germans who were advancing through the trench. He managed to hold them off until his comrades arrived, but then one of his victims, gasping a last breath of life, fired upon him.

During the fight for Hill 145, Captain Thain MacDowell of the 38th Battalion entered an enemy dug-out, where he tricked 77 Prussian Guards into surrendering and captured two machine-guns by pretending he had a large force behind him. His large force consisted of two soldiers. MacDowell had earned the Distinguished Service Order on the Somme.

On April 10, Private John Pattison of the 50th Battalion jumped from shell-hole to shell-hole until, 30 metres from an enemy machine-gun, he was in range to bomb its crew. He then rushed forward to bayonet the remaining five gunners. Pattison was killed two months later.

Of the four Vimy VCs, only Captain MacDowell survived the War.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
At Vimy, the Canadian Corps had captured more ground, more prisoners and more guns than any previous British offensive in two-and-a-half years of war. It was one of the most complete and decisive engagements of the Great War and the greatest Allied victory up to that time. The Canadians had demonstrated they were one of the outstanding formations on the Western Front and masters of offensive warfare.

Though the victory at Vimy came swiftly, it did not come without cost. There were 3,598 dead out of 10,602 Canadian casualties. Battalions in the first waves of the assault suffered grievously. No level of casualties could ever be called acceptable, but those at Vimy were lower than the terrible norm of many major assaults on the Western Front. They were also far lighter than those of any previous offensive at the Ridge. Earlier French, British and German struggles there had cost at least 200,000 casualties. Care in planning by the Corps Commander, Sir Julian Byng, and his right-hand man, Arthur Currie, kept Canadian casualties down.

The Canadian success at Vimy marked a profound turning-point for the Allies. A year-and-a-half later, the Great War was over. The Canadian record, crowned by the achievements at Vimy, won for Canada a separate signature on the Versailles Peace Treaty ending the war. Back home, the victory at Vimy, won by troops from every part of the country, helped unite many Canadians in pride at the courage of their citizen-soldiers, and established a feeling of real nationhood.

Brigadier-General Alexander Ross had commanded the 28th (North-West) Battalion at Vimy. Later, as president of the Canadian Legion, he proposed the first Veterans' post-war, pilgrimage to the new Vimy Memorial in 1936. He said of the battle:

"It was Canada from the Atlantic to the Pacific on parade. I thought then . . . that in those few minutes I witnessed the birth of a nation."

[/ QUOTE ]

Rememberance Day is one of our most significant days of the year. It's a national holiday. Each year, we remember. If there truly is nobility and honor and sacrifice in the hell that is warfare...

We're a convival, affable people. It's an inherently Canadian thing to offer help without expectation. As you can see by the example of Thain McDowell, who probably had to hide a very Canadian-like grin as he pulled off the bluff of his life...

We've always known what it took, to what lengths it takes to help when we weren't required to.

Yes, we're [censored] nuts, we love our beer and donuts and hockey, which happens to be the only major sport on this planet that allows fightin' on the ice.

Do you know why? Because there's no other place a Canadian wants to fight anymore, except for sport.

I love my country and what it stands for. I'm sure after this weekend, 30 other million plus Canadians would tell you the same thing.

Good night.

[pryor15]

ah, très bon

[FortunaMaximus]

Appreciate it. The dialogue above is just a very small part of a large undertaking. I'm currently deep into researching WW1 battles from the point of view of both sides. The eventual intent is to create a historical fictionalizaed account of the experience.

And perhaps shed a little light to Americans, et al, about Canada and Canadians in general.

Alexander Ross was right, and while I'm sure he couldn't have quite envisioned the Canada of today, nevertheless, the principles still carry.

You know, personally I can't fathom warfare as it is today. It's so efficient, so mechanical, and it seems unnecessary.

It's approaching a century since the Great War. People who served in it are dwindling in numbers. Mortality's such a merciless process sometimes, and I'd hope it isn't forgotten or disregarded by future generations as just the "First" World War.

[MrMon]

The First World War is vastly underrated. All of 20th Century history flows from the actions of Gavrilo Princip on June 28, 1914. WWII gets all the glory, but to understand that, you must go back to WWI. We still feel the repercussions of that war today, and will for quite some time.

The Military Channel (the old Discovery: Wings channel) has run a great new series (well, 2003 is still new) on WWI that all people interested in history should see. If you know little about the war, it's a great series and if you know a lot, it'll give you new perspectives. It's not running right now, but it should show up again. Also available on DVD.

IMDB page on "The First World War"

[2/325Falcon]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, personally I can't fathom warfare as it is today. It's so efficient, so mechanical, and it seems unnecessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it seems that way to those who've never been in combat, but I found very personal and messy.

WWI was a turning point in the ways wars are fought with its technological innovations, but war is at its core still the same for those on the front lines.

[FortunaMaximus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know, personally I can't fathom warfare as it is today. It's so efficient, so mechanical, and it seems unnecessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it seems that way to those who've never been in combat, but I found very personal and messy.

WWI was a turning point in the ways wars are fought with its technological innovations, but war is at its core still the same for those on the front lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I admit I was thinking more mostly of strafing, precision bombing, and of course, the unspeakable atrocity of nuclear weapons.

Peacekeepers, infantry, incursion first-in teams, not so much. Turning point, yeah, the first air battles, widespread use of extremely destructive bombs, chemical warfare in the form of mustard gas, etc.

Nasty stuff. I'm careful enough to keep my area of research broad so to give the specific era a solid contextual ground, so going forward, going backward.

Accounts of the Alamo, Thermoplyae for improbable odds and still fighting on despite recognizing that.

Caesar's Commentaries, Alexander's campaigns, the Mongols, the unification of China in ancient history.

Significant battles in the West for the past millennia, Europe and the Americas. The unification of Japan.

Recent conflicts, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and this current occupation of Iraq.

It's a lot of content, and there's more I've not mentioned, but it's rewarding in so many ways, not necessarily just for research. The degree of gallantry and sacrifice an individual man can bring forth out of himself, when he realizes his life is forfeit is astonishing. The reverse is also true, but as a whole, this is less of a factor, it seems.

Kind of funny though, I'm a pacifist generally and at my core I don't get unnecessary violence. I understand it, but I don't get that.

Like it or not, war is a huge influence for our species. And a reasonable understanding of such seems to be a good thing to round out one's education.