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#11
11-08-2006, 12:22 PM
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Re: Betting into passives.....
Playing against loose passives is hard because they do not fold and do not give you a read on their hand. I know I am going to get crucified for this but I get called down enough by weak passives when I have ace high and busted semi-bluffs that if I am heads up I usually don't worry about "outplaying" them at the after flop.
I agree with the turn c/f. If he is on a flush draw and hits, great, he won a small pot. If he has some rag pair and you have ace high, great he won a small pot. If he has king or queen high you win against this player. Two ways for you to lose, one way for you to win. C/f turn, river against this player. There are plenty of other spots to make money off loose-passives. 
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#12
11-08-2006, 12:27 PM
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Re: Betting into passives.....
anyone not like betting this flop in our position into these 2 players with one left to act even behind them in sb. lps peel this flop so light and our decision there after is hard with nothing really to be drawn to oop to two cold callers.
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#13
11-08-2006, 02:04 PM
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Re: Betting into passives.....
on the turn, betting > check calling > slapping ourselves in the nuts > check folding.
If villain has a pair w/o an ace we have 8 out to a straight and 3 outs to top pair. If villain had us dominated pre flop with a hand like AT but doesn't have a pair we have 3 outs to a pair of 7s for the win 4 outs to a winning straight and 4 outs to a chop. If villain is drawing or has total air, a bet charges him more. The only hands that give us a lot of trouble are hands that have both a pair and an ace but which i think is giving a loose passive too much credit, or a turned straight which if he has those cards I won't mind loosing to them. I really think we have way too many outs to consider folding this turn.
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#16
11-08-2006, 05:55 PM
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Re: Betting into passives.....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Are there any other lines to take against this guy? [/ QUOTE ] c/f turn. [/ QUOTE ] Why would we check fold the turn when 1)we may have the best hand 2) we have an over card and 3) on the turn we have a double gutshot to a straight? [/ QUOTE ] Simple. When someone with a VPIP of 30ish and an AF of 0.3 bets--you lose when you have nothing. He CC 2 PF which, with his numbers is usually like KQ, a better Ace, or a PP. If he bets, he's betting a made hand. This is what makes C/F not only easy, but correct.
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#17
11-09-2006, 01:16 AM
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Re: Betting into passives.....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Are there any other lines to take against this guy? [/ QUOTE ] c/f turn. [/ QUOTE ] Why would we check fold the turn when 1)we may have the best hand 2) we have an over card and 3) on the turn we have a double gutshot to a straight? [/ QUOTE ] Simple. When someone with a VPIP of 30ish and an AF of 0.3 bets--you lose when you have nothing. He CC 2 PF which, with his numbers is usually like KQ, a better Ace, or a PP. If he bets, he's betting a made hand. This is what makes C/F not only easy, but correct. [/ QUOTE ] Ok I am not trying to be an ass, I really want to know where I am going wrong. Can't even a passive player bet into us with KQ [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] when we put the brakes on this turn after betting the flop? Mabey not but even if we decide that he doesn't have overs, you said yourself that he probably has a pocket pair. He didn't three bet pre-flop so it looks like JJ or lower but that doesn't really matter because even if he has a set most of our outs are clean. If that is the case and we check the turn and he bets, we are getting 6.5 to 1 on a check call when we have 8 outs against a set and 11 outs against hands like 99. In these cases we are getting better than the necessry odds to draw to winning hands. the only hand that has us in a really bad spot is an ace with a pair on the board but even against those hands we have 4 clean outs to a straight and 4 more to a chop. Even if we knew he had this type of hand the turn would be marginal at worst imo. The river that came is worthless and therefore i would check fold there but not on the turn. And I still like betting the turn more than check calling or check folding.
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