Daniel Negreneau Verifies His Agreement With Me

[BigBuffet]

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Two queens against AK offsuit is about borderline.

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David, do you and Daniel get along? You're personalities seems to be similar, both of you are quite funny guys

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They go off-roading at Red Rock every weekend. Then they talk poker theory, religion and which female player is the hottest while slamming brews by the campfire. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[GardenaMiracle]

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Great, cEV =/= $EV to an exact degree.
Anyone with any understanding knows that your equity doesn't increase on a scale perfectly similar to your stack.
That is not the debate (or at least isn't the meaningful one), the question is what kind of edge should be passed up. Not just conjecture, math.
2007 WSOP ME
You have t70,000
Avg stack is t22,000
You are Daniel Negreanu
Please put a number on what kind of edge should be passed up on a AIPF decision for a player of his caliber against a field the strength of the average ME. Disregard the hourly rate discussion, I am looking for the answer with the highest $EV specific to this one tournament.

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Bill Chen did the math, search through the intelligent gambler. Of course the math makes assumptions that may not be true.
Here is the issue
http://www.conjelco.com/IG/IG23.pdf

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Interesting reading. Chen's book is due out this month I think. In this article, he states his player would have to have at least 3 times the average equity to pass up a 53-47 edge. Did I read that right?

[alanbrown]

Who is this negrenoh character you speak of?

[forgive me if I'm not the first to point this out. It wasn't worth reading the whole thread to check]

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Great, cEV =/= $EV to an exact degree.
Anyone with any understanding knows that your equity doesn't increase on a scale perfectly similar to your stack.
That is not the debate (or at least isn't the meaningful one), the question is what kind of edge should be passed up. Not just conjecture, math.
2007 WSOP ME
You have t70,000
Avg stack is t22,000
You are Daniel Negreanu
Please put a number on what kind of edge should be passed up on a AIPF decision for a player of his caliber against a field the strength of the average ME. Disregard the hourly rate discussion, I am looking for the answer with the highest $EV specific to this one tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Chen did the math, search through the intelligent gambler. Of course the math makes assumptions that may not be true.
Here is the issue
http://www.conjelco.com/IG/IG23.pdf

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting reading. Chen's book is due out this month I think. In this article, he states his player would have to have at least 3 times the average equity to pass up a 53-47 edge. Did I read that right?

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yes, you read it right.

glad someone finally read that article and commented on it.

[GardenaMiracle]

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yes, you read it right.
glad someone finally read that article and commented on it.

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Cool, so now I can add this to my arsenal of early stack building techniques. It's not quite as elegant as the post flop button steal; but hey, whatever works. Actually, I have decided that I enjoy busting out of tournaments. It's a great opportunity to practice being a gentleman. And if I don't get this wonderful result, I have a doubled up stack to take the sting out of it. And we all know the value of tournament chips. Don't we? Lol. Thanks again for pointing this out Beavis.

[Shandrax]

After warching the 2006 ToC it appeared once more that Daniel can be very happy to agree with David on something and get publicity for it, while David didn't pick exactly the biggest theoretical expert to support his point.

[cream12]

While I agree that small ball can be a very profitable concept, I don't think too much of small ball can be profitable, especially in cash games. In tournaments, you play too much you either build your stack up early and gain position, or you lose and get knocked out. Going all in early I too agree is a bad idea, but even the pros have been known to do this. As we've seen Daniel Negreanu's small ball concept works, if you can afford it, as he can and many professional poker players can in both tournament and cash games, but for the average individual I think playing this way could be a bad idea. We know from high stakes poker on GSN Daniel Negreanu's play has been quite a bit of small ball with odd hands that flop straights and are the nuts on the flop. Though, they usually lose out to better hands on the turn and river that are just higher straights with more draws. This leads me to believe that small ball in cash games causes a great flux in money, and as seen he lost a lot in both seasons of High Stakes. Tournament wise he's had a lot of success, but he can also afford to not have to worry about ten grand buy ins, as that is a small amount for him. For the one shot joe, I think waiting and going all in against smaller stacks, or equal stacks early in a tournament is the best strategy as this a way to accumulate chips, and have a chance of bullying your way into position. I have great respect for Daniel Negreanu's ideas as he has proven to be a great player and a fortunate man to be wedded to the beautiful Lori Weber, which by the way I envy you beyond belief, but for the average joe to enter a tournament and play small ball, I believe to be a mistake.

Cream12

[cream12]

Cream12

[HitNRunPoster]

What... do you guys both hate that avatar? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Miklan300]

Mr.Sklansky, please teach me how to get my VPIP below 10%...
















in a HU match.