Max Buyin or Buying in Short

[MyTurn2Raise]

These ideas come from Slotboom's Pot-Limit Omaha book and are the same for holdem in my experience.


advantages to buying in short:

1. If you make a mistake, it won't be a big one.

Your stack is small and the dead money in the pot cuts down the negative ev value of plays.

2. You can offer poor implied odds to loose opponents.

3. Opponents will call you loosely with poor hand values since you cannot 'hurt' them that bad.

4. very limited risk, or exposure.

5. You get additional protection once you're allin from hands still competing for the pot.

Let's say you push with JJ. The two remaining opponents have QQ and AhKh. The board is 4h 3h 7d. The AKs sometimes plays agressive enough to push the QQ out of the hand after you are already allin. That is a boon for your hand value.

6. YOu will not be vulnerable to bluffs/semi-bluffs.



Now, here are the disadvantages.

1. Cannot break your opponents, but they can break you.

2. Cannot pressure opponents and use bluffs/semi-bluffs.

3. Won't get maximal value from good hands verse second best hands.

ie...your sets verse overpair moneymakers don't exist

[MyTurn2Raise]

I've shortstacked for hundreds of thousands of hands, here is why it typically will not work:

1. Your opponents aren't that loose. The fish described by Miller in GSIH is a live poker creature and doesn't exist in significant numbers at 200NL and above in online poker.

-the allin protection concept hardly every applies. Raised pots preflop are usually head-up or 3-way at most.

-AJo hardly ever calls AKo


2. Huds blow your cover. Normally, opponents will assume your a short stack donk (>90% of shortstacks play a really bad style). However, the PAHUD stats blow your cover and it is rare for a good opponent to make any mistakes. Thus, the good opponents calling loosely, because you cannot 'hurt' them that bad doesn't happen enough.

3. Rake pressure

Getting called and doubling up often doesn't mean doubling up with a winner due to the online rake until you get to a high level.

What few shortstackers that were successful seemed to do the best at 1000NL on party for a variety of reasons
1. Multiple LAGs going at eachother preflop and postflop meant loose calling standards from opponents and allin protection.
2. Negligible rake factor.
3. Very tough opponents could never really pressure you with bluffs and semi-bluffs.

[loveminuszero]

Another one of the proponents of the short-buyin strategy is Barry Greenstein. Check Ace On the River for discussion of the strategy. It's very much like Rolf's PLO strategy, in that you're trying to get it all in preflop with a clear favourite rather than playing marginal decision poker postflop. However, if you're one of the better players in the game, buying in for the maximum allows you more profitable situations and as such is the better strategy. So, buy in depending on your skill level.

[DJSHAD0W]

can you elaborate a bit on that?

I think you get people playing with bad implied odds like somehas has siad already, is that why you think its so +EV?

[DJSHAD0W]

haha... just named after him... I wish I was that cool !!

[Fly]

ALWAYS MAX

[Slap My Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wanted to say I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] your music!

[/ QUOTE ]

Although the new album is different from his earlier stuff, some stuff is still catchy. 3 Freaks is a good for pokering.

Thank you for your art, DJ SHADOW.

[snakekilla88]

There are advantages to buying in short but its...
1.) Annoying (I will just leave table if theres a bunch of short stack I think its cheap)
-Most people short stack ssnl because they dont have the bankroll or money tolerance to buy in full.

[DJSHAD0W]

I have played now about 3k hands and noticed that buying in too short is not effective because you can't really call a standard raise 4-5BB for set value with anything less than 50BB... any comments?

What issue have you guys found buying in short to reduce variance?

[gimmetheloot]

Shorties are easily manipulated. That is all.