anyone get away from second set in massive pot HU?

[fish2plus2]

Wait, so you werent arguing against pushing, you were just arguing that it was a tough decision? Nice.

[mikech]

as others have said, great post kane. this part especially struck me:

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Sam said that his opponent "will call w/ AK and 98o for pot control". What Sam fails to realize is that good players will turn AK and 98o into a bluff here before they will start calling down with them

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[MHP]

Just my 2 cents. This would be sickening if this happened to me for that many BB's. Your opponent walked on water this hand and got super lucky. I totally agree that having over 500 BB's changes the way you play poker. A decision for your whole stack @500 BB's is difficult even with 2nd nut. Much easier to make a 100 or 200BB decision. The way you played this hand by merely calling his bet after flop- I think you must go broke with middle set. That 2nd spade gave him a lot of outs if he is playing Ax suited in spades. Maybe if you raise the flop and he re-raises you can get away from this- but it would be super tough. At this point he only has 2 legit possibilities AA or 88. Nothing else makes sense. But since the turned card peeled off- its possible he could reraise turn with with nut spade draw or JT of spades. A lot wider range of hands he would be willing to go broke with after he sees turn card.

I think a decision for this many BB's is always tough unless you have the absolute nuts. I play a lot of omaha and it sometimes is 'correct' to fold the absolute nuts. I once made a $4400 dollar call on the turn in an omaha 10-25 game with top set. This 4400 dollars was the biggest bet I've ever had to call and anytime your not in your comfort zone its very difficult. I would feel sick if someone got this lucky after I made a good call for that many BB's.

[HEK]

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Wait, so you werent arguing against pushing, you were just arguing that it was a tough decision? Nice.

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I never said not to push. I said it's alot closer than most seem to think (w/500bb's). Samo didn't give enough info on himself, his opponent or how the game has been running to make an educated decision. Based on what we know, I shove.

Your post made me realize that it's a much easier decision to get it all in.

[Yeti]

HEK,

Pretty sure he was talking to samo.

[rcs1537]

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Wait, so you werent arguing against pushing, you were just arguing that it was a tough decision? Nice.

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I never said not to push. I said it's alot closer than most seem to think (w/500bb's). Samo didn't give enough info on himself, his opponent or how the game has been running to make an educated decision. Based on what we know, I shove.

Your post made me realize that it's a much easier decision to get it all in.

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Its not even close, the only way you would ever lay this down is if you KNOW your opponent onlly 3bets with AA/KK, and NEVER Bluffs.

Samo said hes opponent was a "good aggressive"... That tells me he A) 3bets a wider hand range than AA/KK and B) HE is capable of bluffing.

Therefoere, its Much more possible he has something other than AA, or is bluffing. Oh yeah, and we happen to have a great hand, Easy call.

[samoleus]

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rcs I am perfectly comfortable dropping 50K in a hand (not that I like it or anything). But your reasoning is tremendously flawed. The reason to "bother playing 99" if you are going to fold on an A98 flop is IF you can be convinced that your opponent has AA. I would not lose 1000 bb's with middle set against a good opponent whether that absolute amount is 500K playing 25-50 or if it is $20 playing .01-.02. You need to understand this concept before playing deep stacked poker.

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Excellent answer. If this is the case then the answer to this is using all your knowledge of this player. By doing so if you are still unsure then doesn't this make you lean towards pushing since there are more hands you beat than more hands you lose to and his chances for having either of these hands are too thin from one another.

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Shady, I think that is an oversimplified way of looking at it. While there are multiple hands that he can have, I do think that he will almost always play AA like this, while the others he will not do so every time. So that makes AA the most likely hand. We must also consider that if he has some kind of combo draw (like he did), he can have up to 12 or 13 outs - while if he has AA, I have only one out. ... However, I did think that the combined equity of my hand against his hand range coupled with the pot odds made this a close decision to call.

[samoleus]

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Wait, so you werent arguing against pushing, you were just arguing that it was a tough decision? Nice.

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KKF, it is of little wonder why everyone here thinks you bring so much to this forum. Thanks for being you.

[IRV]

What are you talking about? KKF was spot on with VERY good advice for you.

[innerpeace]

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Its not even close, the only way you would ever lay this down is if you KNOW your opponent onlly 3bets with AA/KK, and NEVER Bluffs.

Samo said hes opponent was a "good aggressive"... That tells me he A) 3bets a wider hand range than AA/KK and B) HE is capable of bluffing.

Therefoere, its Much more possible he has something other than AA, or is bluffing. Oh yeah, and we happen to have a great hand, Easy call.

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i think it's a mistake to look at this in terms of absolutes especially considering that players at these stakes/stacks mix up their play considerably, especially heads up. even if his pre-flop three betting range is wide, it is likely to be weighted towards certain hands. even if he bluffs, that doesn't mean he does so 100% of the time. also, it's important to piece the hand together street by street as this better defines his range.