why omaha?

[the knob]

I started playing PLO on the Crypto skins as it appeared the best way for low limit players to earn MPPs against bonuses (every now and then a couple maniacs would come by and generate a multitude of $20+ pots). It gives me another game to play other than hold 'em to keep from getting burned out. I play PLO on Stars and UB, 7CS on Prima skins, and HE most everywhere else, so it's a nice mix to keep the mind fresh.

[chipbrave]

w/the hand you described, i would fold on flop most times to a pot bet because 1.you don't know that you up against naked aces, could be sometype of redraw w/it 2.hitting 2 pair isn't very strong on turn, and if don't hit, might face another large bet. As far as overall strategy, mostly stay out of peoples ways, unless big hand, or big draw, don't make elaborate bluff raises, like in holdem (unless good reason) instead, i try to stab at small pots. You should definitely being seeing more flops in PLO, but stay out of trap hands, like DST (double suited trash).

[BobAllinSki]

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Omaha gives people a way to make huge mistakes(i.e. playing non-nut draws, hands w/danglers, etc.) In HE, its tough to make a huge mistake preflop, even calling 7-2 out of postion against AK isn't that bad, but in PLO fish make huge mistakes.

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I actually think its slightly the opposite, in holdem a good player calling with a poor hand out of position might not be making such a bad mistake but a bad player doing this is making an awefull mistake, these plays are quickly punished and the bad player either wises up a little or finds another hobby, in omaha however the overlay of a good hand over a trash hand is smaller & more subtle, almost any 4 cards can flop a straight and trash hands will frequently win some small pots, giving the bad player a reason to keep on gambling with them, and when there straight gets freerolled and they loose a massive pot they feel as if they were unlucky instead of stupid and carry on making the same mistakes.

[Runner Runner]

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Omaha gives people a way to make huge mistakes(i.e. playing non-nut draws, hands w/danglers, etc.) In HE, its tough to make a huge mistake preflop, even calling 7-2 out of postion against AK isn't that bad, but in PLO fish make huge mistakes.

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I actually think its slightly the opposite, in holdem a good player calling with a poor hand out of position might not be making such a bad mistake but a bad player doing this is making an awefull mistake, these plays are quickly punished and the bad player either wises up a little or finds another hobby, in omaha however the overlay of a good hand over a trash hand is smaller & more subtle, almost any 4 cards can flop a straight and trash hands will frequently win some small pots, giving the bad player a reason to keep on gambling with them, and when there straight gets freerolled and they loose a massive pot they feel as if they were unlucky instead of stupid and carry on making the same mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? What about when a bad player makes a non-nut flush or bottom set against your higher flush or top set. The overlay of a good hand over a trash hand may not be as high when they are trying to make different hands. But when they are both trying to make the same hand (flush vs flush, set vs set, boat vs boat) the weaker Omaha hand gets crushed. You are correct though if you are stating that preflop cards mean less in Omaha.

[BobAllinSki]

Of course there are situations where you massively dominate another player in both forms, a player that frequently stacks off with a non nut hand in omaha is pretty much the same a as a player that frequently stacks off TPTK in no limit holdem. In holdem though the edges are bigger preflop and this is usually increased on the flop, if you could see the cards then one is usually a significant favourite over the other, of course there are exceptions but its generaly the case. In omaha however it is much more common to get hands that are all very live and close for the pot, its this 'live' factor that gives omaha its action and keeps bad players playing badly.

Thats just my opinion on it though

[poker1O1]

I've very pleased w/ the responses so far. A couple more questions I still have:

1) How do showdown stats compare, on average, between NLHE and PLO?
2) How important is position in PLO, in terms of preflop? For examle in NLHE, being position = money, pure and simple. You want to raise or CC a wide range of hands in late position. But, in PLO, it seems that you are often a small favorite over your villian(s) hand range(s). So, my question, how does late position play compare between the two games? Are we raising 3+ limpers often like in NLHE or just calling? How do general pfr stats compared between the two games?
3) How common is 3betting preflop? For example, say you have (QJ)s(T8)s. you raise, get raised, you are OOP, are u calling or pushing, assuming villian is strong?
4) Links to posts involving great strategy / advanced play / provoking thoughts? (I couldn't find anything)
5) Also, who are some great PLO posters to study from?
6) Recommended books for advanced full ring play?

[MikeSmith]

1. omaha fits my style better, im usually passive preflop and aggressive postflop which is alot more lucrative in omaha. Although I have actually changed over to being a big more aggressive preflop.

2. Bluffing is easier actually, Considering its easier to make a good hand, its easier to represent a hand if you are heads up against someone who is weak.

3. The winning sessions are far greater in omaha over holdem, Ive had 1500 dollar days playing 1/2 PLO.

4. Holdem players in the games overestimating bottoms sets and flush draws.$$$$$$$$

The only real big negative is the variance considering your edges arent as big as they can be in holdem. In a way this has helped me stop being a NIT and caring about losing a big pot b/c it will happen more often than you would like.

[wazz]

1. I couldn't say, my online NLHE experience is not that extensive. Somehow though despite 12 PTBB/100 in PLO my W$@SD is < 50%.
2. Position is more important in PLO than HE - there is more information available and it is much easier to act with everyone's actions clear to you than act first. Drawing is a bigger factor in omaha as well.
3. In shorthanded, very common. I'm personally not a huge fan of 3 or 4-betting rundowns (like QJT8), double-suited or not, once it's got down to HU, unless you've got a decent amount of fold equity. Full ring, it's not uncommon to see 4 people go to war with AA, AA, KK and a good rundown (which is almost always a large equity favourite).
4. I found this very useful
5. Roundtower, roundtower, and I think roundtower's quite good.
6. Ciaffone is good for a basic level, Slotboom is good for an advanced study of shortstacking, and the section in SS2 is ok as well. Nothing really all-encompassing and in-depth.

[pete fabrizio]

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I've very pleased w/ the responses so far. A couple more questions I still have:

1) How do showdown stats compare, on average, between NLHE and PLO?


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For me personally, I win far fewer showdowns than in HE. I think this is because I end up with a lot of "race" pots, and frequently I go into those as a dog. I also get caught bluffing more often than most. (Not saying those are bad). You also get more multi-way action on late streets than in NLH, so that contributes to a lower win%.

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2) How important is position in PLO, in terms of preflop? For examle in NLHE, being position = money, pure and simple. You want to raise or CC a wide range of hands in late position. But, in PLO, it seems that you are often a small favorite over your villian(s) hand range(s). So, my question, how does late position play compare between the two games? Are we raising 3+ limpers often like in NLHE or just calling? How do general pfr stats compared between the two games?


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Position matters proportionally to stack-size. If you're playing super-deep and have good control over some other super-deep stacks, you can raise VERY liberally with position. Overall though, in most games preflop is played much more passively than in HE, and you will see a ton of open-limping and such.

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3) How common is 3betting preflop? For example, say you have (QJ)s(T8)s. you raise, get raised, you are OOP, are u calling or pushing, assuming villian is strong?


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Standard play is to call and assume the other guy has aces, and then bet one pair or better aggressively on the flop. Unless the pot is several-ways, when you can reraise. Generally a re-raise means aces at the lower levels.

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4) Links to posts involving great strategy / advanced play / provoking thoughts? (I couldn't find anything)


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The forum generally sucks, and you have to be very careful to weed out the bad advice.

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5) Also, who are some great PLO posters to study from?


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I don't think that many posters say all that much that is useful. I tend to agree with Roundtower more often than anyone else as far as what the right play is. Bluffthis gives very detailed, though sometimes simplistic answers. I would always read what he has to say, but don't always agree with it.

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6) Recommended books for advanced full ring play?

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Slotboom's book is definitely the best out there right now, but it's not that great, imo.

[rageotones]

set over set over set + i like to gamb00l