Coldcalling 55

ImAmoron · #1 10-26-2006, 05:48 AM

Cryptologic
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
10 players
Converter

UTG have 29.81/7.69 in 104 hands, no actuall reads on him other than he plays to many strange hands.

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls (7.5:2), 3 folds.

[i]I know that I had read in ITH that you can call this kind of hand if there are lots of callers but I didnt remember how many there needed to be. And I was hopping that the SB or at least the BB would call to.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (9.5SB, 4 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls (16.5:1).

When I got the flop I wanted I raised to get the whole field to pay of an extra bet, but the raiser raised again so they folded. I just called and waited to the turn to raise him.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8.75BB, 2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

He keept on betting so I raised him.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (12.75BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Some what of a scary river card since he showed strength the whole way and might be sitting with a big pocket pair, but its a value bet I cant miss right? And if he had checkraised me I would have to call down this big pot for 1 bet? Hopping that he overplayed AK or something and dont have 44,66 or KK

Results:
Final pot: 14.75BB
Hero shows 5h 5c
UTG mucks Td Ts

How would you have played it?
Folded preflop?
Would you have coldcalled with more callers then?
More of a slowplay on the flop?
Capped the flop when two players folded?
What had you done if the villian would have checkraised the river?

Ampelmann · #2 10-26-2006, 05:58 AM

Out of the blinds I coldcall small pp's typically with at least 3 contributors. Getting 3:1 plus implied odds is good.

The rest of the hand looks good.

Edit: I must say, a raised pot, 4-handed to the flop is pretty uncommon for Crypto 1/2 in my experience.

OziBattler · #3 10-26-2006, 06:02 AM

this is fine. cold call is fine on the proviso that you are playing to flop a set. You hit a monster on the flop so get out your raise rock.

regarding his preflop raise, when an 8%PFR guy raises in EP he basically going to be raising with stuff such as pairs 99+ and the better big and probably suited cards so the only hand you fear on the river is KK so dont get MUBS and think he has anything else that beats you.

Now, this is probably not the sort of hand that you should be posting because it happens so rarely. Focus on the common hands that happen frequently and not monster hands.

also you might want to edit the post and remove the results so that you dont get called a Moron [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

22pajo · #4 10-26-2006, 06:03 AM

Looks fine.

I never fold a pp pre flop. Your implied odds are huge if you flop a set.

Jago · #5 10-26-2006, 06:13 AM

cap the flop.
no. you can consider implied odds when deciding to call with small pocket pairs.
never slow play (villian could have A2, A3)
yes, cap it.
call usually, but raise depending on the aggression and villain's likeihood to bluff.

Ampelmann · #6 10-26-2006, 06:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
never slow play

[/ QUOTE ]
Imo this is the perfect situation to only call the 3-bet. I don't mind a cap, but villain is at best on a 2-outer.

[ QUOTE ]
(villian could have A2, A3)

[/ QUOTE ]
Why do we care about A2 or A3? In fact, we hope that villain hits his straight if he's on a draw (but given that he raised preflop and 3-bet the flop a straight draw is unlikely).

[ QUOTE ]
yes, cap it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like this line better. We get one more BB.

ImAmoron · #7 10-26-2006, 06:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine.

I never fold a pp pre flop. Your implied odds are huge if you flop a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isnt holding on to all PP a losing play in the long run, regarding there is a raise an everything. I would instantly lay this hand down if there wasnt at least 3 guys in the pot before me, is that wrong?

OziBattler · #8 10-26-2006, 06:45 AM

22, I hope you are overstating that you never fold a pp preflop. There certainly are times and places where you get dealt a small pp and should be mucking that sucker. Perhaps you meant you never fold them in this particular spot (or ones very similar to it) that hero is in.

ImA, you played this fine. I actually like not capping the flop so as to let him think his big pair is best. If you cap and he is sane he will probably c/c to SD thinking you have at least trips. Apart from that, dont sweat too much on this hand. mkay?

22pajo · #9 10-26-2006, 06:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine.

I never fold a pp pre flop. Your implied odds are huge if you flop a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isnt holding on to all PP a losing play in the long run, regarding there is a raise an everything. I would instantly lay this hand down if there wasnt at least 3 guys in the pot before me, is that wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Correction, i meant "I never fold a pp pre flop IN THIS SPOT". oops.

Sigurd · #10 10-26-2006, 08:13 AM

Semi-grunching (being lazy)

I'm not exstatic about the preflop cold call. If this wasn't cryptologic, I would make the call, but this place is a rockgarden, so I would have to think about whether to make the call or not.

math:
Total pot (sort of) we need to win when flopping a set to break even on the cold call:
2/0.12 = 16.6SB

Subtracting the preflop pot (making it 5-way, since that is what you expected):
16.6-2*5 =6.6SB

So, each time we hit a set on the flop, we will need to extract 6.6 SB from your opponents (not counting our own bets here), just to break even.

---

I think that the preflop action is somehow dependant on the the read you have on the other players in the hand, and the BB/SB.
Will SB/BB call?
Will your opponents be willing to put 6.6SB into the pot postflop?